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Audible Differences in Copper vs. Silver Cables? - Page 12  

post #166 of 362
Quote:
Originally Posted by elmoe View Post
 

 

Your first request is respectfully denied. There is scientific proof that cables do not have a sound signature, if you want to argue the contrary, that's fine, so long as you provide proof of your own. "My ears can hear it" is not an argument. The issue isn't what you can or can't hear, as there is nothing "more" or "less" to be heard in the first place. The issue is the expectation bias of your brain that makes you believe you hear something "better" simply because after spending that kind of money and seeing such a pretty looking cable, you expect it to.

 

Secondly, no, I am not dismissing it. I've made plenty of cables myself. If you're interested in the specifics of how Frank at Toxic Cables makes his cables, you can feel free to contact him yourself. If you feel that paying 200 dollars for labor is fair, that's fine, it's your money. I'm allowed to disagree.

 

No, cables do not make a difference. What you think you know is irrelevant unless you provide substantial scientific proof of your claim, if you heard any difference while blindfolded, and assuming the proper procedure was used (that's doubtful), then one of the cables used had design flaws. My hearing is actually quite good, it's been tested quite a few times. My system is also quite resolving, but that doesn't really matter as I have demo'd cables costing thousands of dollars on systems costing close to hundreds of thousands of dollars, and my conclusion remains the same.

 

This is always the prime argument of the cable believer that has no substantiated proof to his claims: if others can't hear it either their hearing is bad or their system sucks. Sorry to tell you but your expensive cables sound exactly the same as the cheapest properly built cable you can find.

 

Sorry but you are getting silly now, very silly. I have the best proof that you can get, my own ears. I don't listen with science, I don't listen through a machine to tell me what I am hearing.

If you believe science is god and is infallible then so be it. That is your problem not mine.

Your prime argument, and it's the same for all cable naysayers, is that if it can't be proven with science it can't possibly be true.

 

If my ears tell me, and many many many other peoples to, that there is a difference (even in blind tests) then that is far more accurate than any scientific method that you dogmatically cling to.

 

You entitled to your opinion but not to dismiss other peoples actual experiences.

 

Uh and I have just looked at your cable inventory.... interesting that you have wasted so much money on cables that make no difference!!  :rolleyes:

(Enigma Audio Silver ICs
Cardas 300b Microtwin ICs
Moon Audio Blue Dragon Digital RCA to BNC
Glass Toslink Optical Cable x2
Moon Audio Black Dragon Speaker cables)
 


Edited by nigeljames - 5/22/14 at 4:00am
post #167 of 362
Quote:
Originally Posted by nigeljames View Post
 

 

Sorry but you are getting silly now, very silly. I have the best proof that you can get, my own ears. I don't listen with science, I don't listen through a machine to tell me what I am hearing.

If you believe science is god and is infallible then so be it. That is your problem not mine.

Your prime argument, and it's the same for all cable naysayers, is that if it can't be proven with science it can't possibly be true.

 

If my ears tell me, and many many many other peoples to, that there is a difference (even in blind tests) then that is far more accurate than any scientific method that you dogmatically cling to.

 

You entitled to your opinion but not to dismiss other peoples actual experiences.

 

Since you're mentioning blind tests, there hasn't been a single blind test ever done that reliably proved anyone could hear any difference between cables. Feel free to look that up.

 

The thing is, my "opinion" is not an opinion. It's a fact, it's been proven repeatedly, for decades. And every single attempt at disproving it has failed. I'm absolutely entitled to dismiss your experiences, just as you've been dismissing not only my "opinion", but the facts of the matter entirely. Your argument is onpar with someone telling me that the moon is yellow because that's what he can see, ignoring the fact that science has proved the color is due to the sunlight hitting it/the particles in the atmosphere.

post #168 of 362
Quote:
Originally Posted by elmoe View Post
 

 

Since you're mentioning blind tests, there hasn't been a single blind test ever done that reliably proved anyone could hear any difference between cables. Feel free to look that up.

 

The thing is, my "opinion" is not an opinion. It's a fact, it's been proven repeatedly, for decades. And every single attempt at disproving it has failed. I'm absolutely entitled to dismiss your experiences, just as you've been dismissing not only my "opinion", but the facts of the matter entirely. Your argument is onpar with someone telling me that the moon is yellow because that's what he can see, ignoring the fact that science has proved the color is due to the sunlight hitting it/the particles in the atmosphere.

 

Your opinion is 'only' opinion when many people disagree. I have not dismissed your opinion it was you who dismissed mine.

If you can't hear any difference with cables, or you have convinced yourself you can't because science tells you, then that is fine. It's your choice if you want to be led by the scientific community, I make my own mind up based on my own experiences.

I have not told you what you can or can't hear but seem intent on telling other people.

 

There are a number of threads on head-fi dedicated to cable users who report hearing differences.

Maybe you should try polluting on those threads and see what response you get, but then again why bother, we are all mad and hearing things that don't exist  :wink_face: 


Edited by nigeljames - 5/22/14 at 4:42am
post #169 of 362
Just an innocent head-fier, passing through.
post #170 of 362
Quote:
Originally Posted by nigeljames View Post

Your opinion is 'only' opinion when many people disagree. I have not dismissed your opinion it was you who dismissed mine.
If you can't hear any difference with cables, or you have convinced yourself you can't because science tells you, then that is fine. It's your choice if you want to be led by the scientific community, I make my own mind up based on my own experiences.
I have not told you what you can or can't hear but seem intent on telling other people.

There are a number of threads on head-fi dedicated to cable users who report hearing differences.
Maybe you should try polluting on those threads and see what response you get, but then again why bother, we are all mad and hearing things that don't exist  wink_face.gif  

Then I guess the earth isn't really round and 2+2 don't really equal 4, those are after all just opinions I choose to believe right?

No, you're not mad, just gullible and stubborn wink.gif
post #171 of 362
Quote:
Originally Posted by nigeljames View Post

Your opinion is 'only' opinion when many people disagree. I have not dismissed your opinion it was you who dismissed mine.
If you can't hear any difference with cables, or you have convinced yourself you can't because science tells you, then that is fine. It's your choice if you want to be led by the scientific community, I make my own mind up based on my own experiences.
I have not told you what you can or can't hear but seem intent on telling other people.

There are a number of threads on head-fi dedicated to cable users who report hearing differences.
Maybe you should try polluting on those threads and see what response you get, but then again why bother, we are all mad and hearing things that don't exist  wink_face.gif  

What we are trying to tell you is that you and every other human on the face of the Earth Can Not Hear Any Difference In Sound Quality Between Properly Constructed Cables No Matter The Cost or Construction (generally copper or silver)......Period.

If I bring over a cheap Monoprice cable and set up a proper double blind test not you or anyone else could hear the difference between it and your favorite cable.....guaranteed.
post #172 of 362
Quote:
Originally Posted by elmoe View Post


Then I guess the earth isn't really round and 2+2 don't really equal 4, those are after all just opinions I choose to believe right?

No, you're not mad, just gullible and stubborn wink.gif

 

Not gullible or stubborn just know what I know. You don't believe it so be it your problem your loss (although not financially)

 

Please go to the Toxic or Moon Audio or any other cable appreciation thread and tell them ALL that they are imagining any SQ differences.

Again look at your own cable inventory, and you're really saying that cables don't make a difference :biggrin:

 

There are thousands of people who do believe cables make a difference. They can't all be wrong, in fact only one needs to be correct to prove that cables can make a difference.

It comes down to blind faith in science (I never do blind faith) or common sense. I am on the side of common sense!

 

Also many years ago scientists believed the world was flat, how wrong they were!!


Edited by nigeljames - 5/22/14 at 6:55am
post #173 of 362
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astropin View Post


What we are trying to tell you is that you and every other human on the face of the Earth Can Not Hear Any Difference In Sound Quality Between Properly Constructed Cables No Matter The Cost or Construction (generally copper or silver)......Period.

If I bring over a cheap Monoprice cable and set up a proper double blind test not you or anyone else could hear the difference between it and your favorite cable.....guaranteed.

 

I have read some funny posts on head-fi but that almost tops the lot, thanks for the laugh I appreciate it.

post #174 of 362
Quote:
Originally Posted by nigeljames View Post

Not gullible or stubborn just know what I know. You don't believe it so be it your problem your loss (although not financially)

Please go to the Toxic or Moon Audio or any other cable appreciation thread and tell them ALL that they are imagining any SQ differences.

Also many years ago scientists believed the world was flat, how wrong they were!!

You know what you know, sounds like you're part of a cult. Scientists (actually it was mostly the religious, blind faith and all, you know something about that) had HYPOTHESIZED the world was flat and were PROVEN wrong.... By science.
post #175 of 362
Quote:
Originally Posted by elmoe View Post


You know what you know, sounds like you're part of a cult. Scientists (actually it was mostly the religious, blind faith and all, you know something about that) had HYPOTHESIZED the world was flat and were PROVEN wrong.... By science.

 

Hypothesis that science attributed to.

 

As for being part of a cult seriously I could say the same about you.

 

But this is getting silly now so won't be commenting anymore.

 

You believe what you have been told to believe and I will believe what I hear and leave it at that then we are both happy...deal?

post #176 of 362
Quote:
Originally Posted by nigeljames View Post
 

 

Hypothesis that science attributed to.

 

As for being part of a cult seriously I could say the same about you.

 

But this is getting silly now so won't be commenting anymore.

 

You believe what you have been told to believe and I will believe what I hear and leave it at that then we are both happy...deal?

 

Go open a dictionary and read the definition of hypothesis, then the definition of a fact.

 

I don't "believe" anything. It's not a question of beliefs, that's the whole point. We're not talking about Santa Claus or the toothfairy.

 

As for my cable inventory, every single one of them was bought BEFORE I actually tested things out for myself and came to the realization that it was complete rubbish. I've had much more expensive ones too, that I've since sold, because they provide no difference in sound quality whatsoever. So in fact I am well placed to know what I'm talking about, even from your 'trust your ears' standpoint.

post #177 of 362
Quote:
Originally Posted by elmoe View Post
 

 

Go open a dictionary and read the definition of hypothesis, then the definition of a fact.

 

I don't "believe" anything. It's not a question of beliefs, that's the whole point. We're not talking about Santa Claus or the toothfairy.

 

As for my cable inventory, every single one of them was bought BEFORE I actually tested things out for myself and came to the realization that it was complete rubbish. I've had much more expensive ones too, that I've since sold, because they provide no difference in sound quality whatsoever. So in fact I am well placed to know what I'm talking about, even from your 'trust your ears' standpoint.

 

Yet you have not sold them, bought monoprice cables that are just as good and pocketed the difference!!, interesting... oops said I would not post anymore silly me  ;)

post #178 of 362
Quote:
Originally Posted by nigeljames View Post

Sorry but you are getting silly now, very silly. I have the best proof that you can get, my own ears.

Ears are fine. The problem is they're plugged into a highly subjective, embarrassingly fallible human brain. If our subjective perceptions were in fact the best proof one could get of the physical world around us, then there could be no such things as aural and optical illusions because the best proof you can get could never be so easily fooled or manipulated. Yet there are countless examples of aural and optical illusions out there. Which is why, when we want to know just what is going on around us, we don't simply "trust our ears" or "trust our eyes."

Or brains are also capable of being possessed of huge amounts of ego and vanity, which can cause some to ultimately deny their own humanity, making any sort of rational discussion with such individuals virtually impossible as has been demonstrated here.

se
post #179 of 362
This is like telling someone that ghosts don't exist even if they think they've seen them, it's not going to work. We just need to change the law, add regulations expensive amps, dacs, and cables with a little warning "any actual improvement in sound quality is purely imagined".
Edited by Hapster - 5/22/14 at 8:21am
post #180 of 362
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hapster View Post

This is like telling someone that ghosts don't exist even if they think they've seen them, it's not going to work.

No, it's not going to change their minds, but since the discussion isn't taking place in private, I think it's still worthwhile to present the other side for the benefit of others.

se
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