Sennheiser HD800 Appreciation Thread - Page 439  

I also use the Black Dragon and much prefer it to the stock cable.....

 

Would you recommend the Black Dragon HD800 cable over the Silver Dragon HD800 cable?

seriously get copper cable! it has so much better tone.. 

 

I like copper cable so much i'll be the first one in the world recabling my STAX SR-009 to copper cable. I can't take the original silverplated copper cable.. ouch

 

 

just how much a difference are we talking about?  i see there was a little talk from the hd800 cable thread and nobody ever talk again.

It's hard to quantify differences in objective terms.  All ears are different, etc.  To me there is no going back to anything stock.  That's me.  After a long journey.  I would say go to meets.  Try things out.  Borrow things.  Steal things... Learn to listen critically, that's the point.  Once you train yourself to really listen, then subtle changes won't be subtle anymore and bad cable geometries with smearing, compressing "audiophile" connectors (even some that pass for good here) will no longer be tolerable...

i know you are hearing great sound as your system is; but i hope that one day you'll hear this masterwork in high resolution, in particular a needledrop of the Classic Records 45 RPM vinyl pressing. it will be akin to moving up to the HD800 from a porta-pro; it will be 10 times as amazing as the difference between the stock td11 tube and those you've found that you like much more.

Edited by analog'd - 2/6/13 at 5:44pm

Let me say upfront that I in the past have invested enormous amounts of money on cables. I agree cables do make a difference, I also agree that it is difficult to quantify the differences in objective terms. Let me try to put  the investment in cables into perspective. Most important thing to remind here is the law of diminishing returns versus your system sounds as good as the weakest link.

 

Let me give an example. A system that consists of a 500 dollar cd player and 500 dollar amplifier driving the Sennheiser HD800 with stock cables. I have 1000 dollar to spend, where would I spend it on? I would spend it on either the cd player or the amplifier, because I think the improvement of going from a 500 to a 1500 dollar cd player or amplifier is greater than the improvement I would get if I spend all my money on a headphone cable.

 

Now what if my system consists of a 10.000 dollar cd player and 10.000 dollar amplifier driving the Sennheiser HD800 with stock cable, and you have the same 1000 dollar to spend. Than I would spend the money on the headphone cable because I think that will give me most improvement. But in this system no matter where you spend the money on, the differences (improvements) are always more subtle than 1000 dollar spend in the first system.  But I agree these subtle differences can make the final click to make your system magical, and as such although subtle can be profound.

 

Personally, I think I was stupid paying huge amounts of money on cables, but I am glad I did….Cables last a lifetime. That is why I agree with Fejnomid that you have to spend money on the most transparent and ‘neutral’ cables you can find. I would warn against spending money on cables as a tone control of your current system, because when you change things in your system you have to change the cables as well. And again, if your system is for instance too bright, you get more improvements from spending your money on a ‘warm’ cd player or amplifier than on a ‘warm’ cable. And if you use a tube amplifier, in my opinion changing tubes are a better and (sometimes) cheaper tone control of your system than cables.

Hope this helps.

Edited by playitloud - 2/7/13 at 3:17am

That is my sentiment as well. At a lower tier as long as you have a functional cable, you shouldn't need anything above stock. As your system begins to climb perhaps a cheaper aftermarket cable is in order, and as you get to the price bracket you are comfortable with being near-max then break out the tweaks and go to town since you know you will be with that gear for a long time.

 

 

Whew...  James is pretty high $$.  I asked if he measures his headphones after he does the Ultra Mod.  He said the changes can't be measured.  So I assume you got the Ultra Mod done.  If so what positive or negative differences did you notice (subjectively of course)?

 

Thanks playitloud, that's an informative post. Cables are something I think I initially overlooked, but now it's time I feel that I should invest more in them.

You are welcome. I forgot to mention one important thing. I personally believe that it is very important to know your system through and through. That means that you have spent a lot of time with it as it is, without changing all the time. Only if you know your system very well, you are able to 'analyze' and describe its signature. Based on your innate knowlegde about your systems' signature you can experiment with tubes and cables. Remember not to overdo it, and do not expect huge differences. But if you know your system well, you can hear subtle differences that allow you to finetune the sound coming from your system. Good luck..

Edited by playitloud - 2/7/13 at 7:51am

Dunno...

 

Few points to make here:

 

1) The  myth of $10,000 components being better than $500 components.  Boy is this not always the case.  I think the spread in your example is too broad.  Let's bring it down to earth.   If you had a $1000 source and $1000 amp and the HD800, for example, I would still suggest spending any extra $1000 on cabling.  Why wouldn't you bring the cables up to the same level as the components?  Otherwise you are not actually hearing the components - you are hearing the cables as they choke off the signal.

 

2) I agree with getting to know your system.  Relaxing into a system for a long time and not changing around too much - yes.  All the more reason, I would argue, to get the right cabling so you can actually know what you are knowing, so to speak.

 

3) The reason people think cables make only a subtle difference is because almost all cables are made essentially the same way:  thick conductors, Teflon dielectric, various types of shielding, "audiophile" connectors.  They may change the shape of the conductor or the weave, they may add some cotton here or some air there, they may use a lot of fancy terminology to convince you that their shielding is better than someone else's, etc. but they are all built on essentially the same principles.  And those principles are by and large wrong.  Every one of those choices chokes off the signal, smears it and compresses it, to the point that what comes out the other end sounds more or less the same no matter who made the cable.  Some better, for sure, some worse.  It is absolutely shocking to me that outside of a few cable makers very very very few people are experimenting with different underlying cable construction principles, the most radical of which reads something like this: eliminate ALL dielectric, use the thinnest conductors possible, source or build connectors that have no smearing/compression effects -- in other words TAKE AWAY everything the "audiophile" cables are built from.  Higher priced cabling does not mean better cabling, not by a long shot, just better marketing and rhetoric.  So I'm not even advocating spending $1000 on cabling.  In fact, you can modify your current cables to become MUCH more transparent - along the lines of what I've just described - simply with some wire strippers, some solder, some Deoxit and a small order from Parts Connexion.  Strip away any sheathing, tubing, shielding, and expose your wires.  Free them from each other - bundled wires are a bad idea.  Use connectors with the LEAST amount of thick, plated metal (I know, heresy!), preferable building your own out of wood or a tone metal like brass.  The difference will be staggering.  I did this with a run-of-the-mill Kimber USB cable and turned it into a giant killer for about 3 hours worth of labor and no cost.

 

Anyway, you get my point.  I could go on but I won't - there are POV differences here, that's all.  Hope this makes sense.  Back to topic...

How much, prep?

 

 

Over 1K.  With the Hardwire cable + Ultra Mod.

Uh, ok. 1k.