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Rolled-off bass on HD600 - Page 2

post #16 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDBacklash View Post
Few things.
Someone stated that the 600 is audible at 30 hz (i have to agree). Thats not even one octave it is missing.
as for the graph, that graph shows nothing as to why it would miss "lower octaves". Wont touch the rest of your post given the large thread you made filled with misinformation. That graph has little to do with the slight rolloff (which is more a side-effect of an open headphone than the impedence spike at 112 hz or so which is common among a lot of headphones). Do some research please..
Of course it's audible at 30 Hz. The impedance plot shows the driver's resonant freq. You're not making any sense. Might want to study basic audio transducer design. I'll just avoid your attempts at flaming me.
post #17 of 49
When using a powerful amp with high damping factor all interesting to you is the frequency response. The impedance fluctuation doesn't bother it. There is no reason for any octave to be inaudible form the HD600's, it's a problem with incorrectly designed or poorly built amplifier.
post #18 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by majkel View Post
When using a powerful amp with high damping factor all interesting to you is the frequency response. The impedance fluctuation doesn't bother it. There is no reason for any octave to be inaudible form the HD600's, it's a problem with incorrectly designed or poorly built amplifier.
How does his amplifier's damping characteristics have anything to do with the headphone driver's Fs? Can you please explain how his amplifier has anything to do with it? If anything, added resistance from his amplifier would increase the overall qtc of the system, no? I just don't understand what you're trying to say, or why you're suggesting that he needs another amplifier?
post #19 of 49
BHTX, search and learn about damping factor.
post #20 of 49
Hello QQQ. I'm well aware of the concepts concerning damping factor as applied to loudspeakers, and it's really no different with headphones. It's still largely irrelevant to a degree, if not even more so. There should be little effect on the frequency response or dynamic behavior, especially since there's no enclosure (HD600 is even an open headphone) or heavy cones to control. Seems as though his sound card is heavily promoted for headphone use, claims to work fine with headphones of 32~600 ohms, but obviously doesn't mention power output capabilities. Does anyone have a schematic? It's likely not the most powerful thing on earth, but I'm sure it's fine. Regardless, there's no amplifier that's going to significantly raise the low end below resonance. Also, altho Fs is around 100 Hz (typical), the roll off is actually fairly shallow -only between first and second order (it's actually still less than 10dB/oct after the knee), due to the open back design. The Qt of the driver obviously isn't INSANELY high (like a lot of headphones I've come across tend to be). Therefore, these drivers obviously have a sufficient motor structure, low freq damping is not only fine, but very good. Their resonance is just a little too high for equal output below 60 Hz or so, that's all.. and this is the usual for headphone drivers. A lower resonance would only take away from sensitivity, and efficiency would be even lower than it already is. So, if that were the case, everybody would be griping about that instead.. which is why a large portion of headphones are typically somewhat limited in low bass resposne. The only reasonable solution to this is EQ'ing the low end a bit. Even a software eq can work just fine, however, the downside to all of this (especially with any sort of digital EQ), is that you'll have to prevent clipping.. likely your sound card, if that's what you're using with these headphones. Therefore, you'll need to significantly lower the over all volume while adding the eq. This can be an issue if your amplifier doesn't have a fairly significant amount of headroom for the needed gain. taso89: What software are you using for playing your music? Can you use VST plugins with it? See my screenshot below, I just added this to my HD600's using foobar2k. Works great, and it's the only real possible solution..

post #21 of 49
Are you sticking the mic on the phone to do a measurement. Wouldn't you need to form some type of seal to get the low bass that you hear when you have them clamped on your head? I don't know, that's why I'm asking. Either way, i'm sure they are not flat to 20hz by any stretch of the imagination, but didn't expect them to roll off that sharply either.

Anyway, I prefer the HD650 over my HD580 (equivalent to the HD600) due to the "polite" bass of the latter.
post #22 of 49
He actually suppose to use a dummy head for measurement. Any other way wouldn't cut it.
post #23 of 49
Thread Starter 
@BHTX: I use Convolver with Foobar to "extend" the bass. Some minor adjustments to delay the roll-off results in deeper extension without distortion. If anyone wants the impulse file (which just gets rid of that big peak at ~3KhZ, plus extends the bass a little) I can post it.

@Max_F: I stuck the mic inside the left earcup both in placement and rotation to approximately where the ear is. I muted the right channel just to make sure there are no conflicts. I then cupped my hand firmly over the earpad to get a "seal" going.

@moonboy403: Yeah I'm not saying this measurement is 1500% correct but my ears confirmed the results, and if you take a look at Headroom's measurements mine are remarkably similar except for that mid-bass hump. Same peak at ~3KhZ, etc.
post #24 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by BHTX View Post
How does his amplifier's damping characteristics have anything to do with the headphone driver's Fs? Can you please explain how his amplifier has anything to do with it? If anything, added resistance from his amplifier would increase the overall qtc of the system, no? I just don't understand what you're trying to say, or why you're suggesting that he needs another amplifier?
I agree, you didn't understand. I said that the impedance characteristic does not matter for the amplifier with a high damping factor, juct focus on the frequency response. When you do, you will realize all octaves should be audible. If they are not, this means bass roll-off on the amplifier's side.
post #25 of 49
lol...the bass rolled off on the 600 and got into the 650.
post #26 of 49
How many threads are there about getting a proper amp for the 600/650/701? 3000? 6000?
post #27 of 49
Thread Starter 
Sorry for wasting your time but have you actually read the entire thread? I was exploring the options (of which there is more than one, that doesn't include spending $200 or more on a dedicated amp). Perhaps you have an unlimited budget. What I'm showing is the exact opposite, that you don't have to spend a dime to improve the frequency response of a headphone but I guess there will always be pretentious sheep

I think I'm satisfied with Foobar+Convolver plug-in (which uses parametric EQ without distortion, and the HD600 can easily handle it).
post #28 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by taso89 View Post
Sorry for wasting your time but have you actually read the entire thread? I was exploring the options (of which there is more than one, that doesn't include spending $200 or more on a dedicated amp). Perhaps you have an unlimited budget. What I'm showing is the exact opposite, that you don't have to spend a dime to improve the frequency response of a headphone but I guess there will always be pretentious sheep

I think I'm satisfied with Foobar+Convolver plug-in (which uses parametric EQ without distortion, and the HD600 can easily handle it).
The point im tring to make is this: A headphone designed to be easily driven will give you better sound quality than a 600 plugged into a struggling Xonar. Its a classic mistake people make. Just because its a 600 doesnt mean it will sound good when plugged into anything. Denon, Grado, Sony, AudioTechnica, and 32 Ohm beyerdynamics are all more suitable for your needs. Then EQ would not be nessary to cover up the Xonar clipping when the music peaks. Short version is, pluging a hard to drive headphone into a soundcard (even if it has an onboard amp) is going to give you mediocre results everytime. This is why the forums are here so situations like this can be avoided.
post #29 of 49
As other's have stated these don't have rolled-off bass, just bass isn't as powerful if not amped. I think the HD600 bass is quite respectable and extends low and has decent punch to it.
post #30 of 49
It seems as if people do not search before asking questions. This question and many questions like it have been answered before.
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