Does Beyer make a headphone that's less "forward"?

I own the Beyer DT880 and have also heard the DT990. I love the beauty of timbre you get from the Beyers, but I find that the bass is too full and the perspective is too "forward." I feel like I'm sitting in the middle of the orchestra instead of in front of it, and there is less spaciousness. I prefer a more neutral perspective. Is there a Beyer that is less forward?

Second question: has anyone heard both the AKG K271 and the K501? Is the K271 similar to the K501? I own the K501, but might benefit from the closed-back K271, because my listening environment is not completely silent.

Thanks,
Mike

I bought them around 2005 I think. I don't know the impedance for sure, but I think it's the lower impedance version. Don North brought over his 600-ohm DT 880 yesterday and it sounded forward, too.

It seems to be part of the design philosophy of Beyerdynamics to be forward and very full in the bass, but I wonder if there is one that is less so.

Note: I've also heard the DT990 and it's a bit more spacious than the DT880 I think, but still the basic sound.

Can you give us some kind of context for this statement? All the Beyers I've heard are warm and very full in the lower mids/upper bass. I wonder what you are listening to that makes them seem "recessed."

My own context is: I listen mostly to classical music and have heard Beyer, AKG, and Sennheiser headphones.

After more listening, I think the K501 just isn't high-enough resolution for me. I think the case or diaphragm suffers from uncontrolled resonant modes---nothing bad, but enough to sacrifice the resolution I want.

If you compare the DT880 to the K601, the DT880 is very far forward, like sitting in the middle of the musicians, while the K601 sounds more like sitting in the audience. I like the latter because it gives me a chance to choose where to put my attention and gives a better perspective on a live performance in a resonant hall.

Someone who listens to studio rock music may have a completely different opinion---there is no original acoustic image in that case, so it's hard to say what "forward" or "audience-level" means.

-Mike

I'm talking about how close the instruments seem, which is a psychological effect emerging from tonal balance, headstaging, and the direct/reflected sound ratio (as one perceives through the headphone; obviously the headphone can't change what the microphones heard). Technically it probably emerges from the frequency response curve; I would expect a forward headphone to have stronger mids and less highs. It would have a stronger signal in the regions of the spectrum that signal to we human animals that a sound is near us; while the K601 has a stronger signal in the regions of the spectrum that signal to our brains "this is a reflected sound." But primarily it's the psychological effect---what you experience during listening---that I'm talking about. I can't claim to know the frequency response curve of each headphone, but I describe the experience of each.

As I've said, listening to something other than minimally-miked acoustic music could turn this picture on its head, because in that case things like reverberation and soundstaging happen through different mechanisms.


-Mike

Always fascinating how we can describe the same headphone in such different ways, depending on the context (what music are we listening to, what amps, what other headphones).

Don, you write that the DT880/250 ohm is "proper/uptight and not engaging emotionally." I think I know what kind of experience you are talking about, and I've had that experience with other equipment. However, I would never say that about the DT880/250 ohm. With the classical music I listen to, the DT880 is very warm and puts you right next to the musicians which has the potential to be very engaging. Something curious is that some people (probably not you) think of classical music itself as "proper/uptight." In other words, people who love mainly jazz and rock for the feeling of taking off the social restraints can be very conscious that classical comes from a tradition of entertaining royalty.

Can you say more about this "magic" that the K601 has (lacking in the K701)? I'm interested to hear the K701--in spite of the K701 so commonly described as "clinical", I suspect that this is a code word to describe a slightly bright and lean tonal balance, but that with the right source and amp the K701 might just have the potential to convey great beauty and have a smooth articulation of piano attacks.

I have a theory why some people think of the DT880 as bright, and some as rolled-off. In the DT880 I hear a kind of "sizzle" on strings and brass---they increase energy in the sibilance region, but not in a harsh way at all. It's a soft and glowing presentation of the "sizzle potential" in strings and brass. At the same time, they sound a bit rolled off to me above the sibilance region. So in other words, I think they have a peak around 6-8KHz and are rolled off above 10KHz. So whether you think they are "bright" or "rolled-off" depends on the kind of music you listen to, and what its spectral content is. If your music has a lot of energy at 8KHz it will sound bright on the DT880. If its high-frequency energy is concentrated above that, it will sound rolled-off.