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Power supplies affect on the sound. - Page 4

post #46 of 66
No from that he has no issue with them, just doesn't like the crappy Chinese ones he has heard.
post #47 of 66
With my M^3, I switched out the PSU from an Elpac to the STEPS. I can't explain why but the sound quality is not mystically better, not magically better, not kinda better, but obviously smoother.
post #48 of 66
Once i tested the x can v8 with and without the xpsu v8 power supply.(using same source-cables-cans)
The sound with the better power supply was more transpared,with better dynamics,tighter and better defined mid bass/bass and better rythm & timing.
The difference was clearly noticable to my ears.
post #49 of 66
I suggest you take a look at the Shunyata web site, and ask yourself why many pro audio/recording studios use Shunyata power cables and power conditioners --

Likewise, most component's power supplies are text-book designs, done to a price point, and i would suggest are not "properly designed". Even good psu designs benefit from good power conditioning.

These are empirical claims, not a priori, as are yours-- you just haven't done the work!



Quote:
Originally Posted by gregorio View Post
I'm trying to decide if this thread is a spoof or if there really are some people out there who believe changing the power cable or supply makes a difference.

For those of you new to this, upgrading your power cables or power supplies may make your system look prettier but will make no difference to the sound quality. If for some reason you do hear a difference then you need to buy a new DAC (or whatever) as it has obviously been unbelievably badly designed if it's own PSU can't handle standard fluctuations in mains power.

I notice that someone said surely they wouldn't make expensive upgrade power cables if they made no difference. The reality is of course that anyone will make anything if they can make money at it. The audiophile world is a great target for many manufacturers as they are easy to convince that a super expensive cable (of any sort) will improve their sound quality. Interestingly, none of these cable retailers advertise to the professional audio market because they are far less easy to fool.

G
post #50 of 66
He hasn't done the work to find out there's even an audible difference between $500 dac or amp vs. $50,000 dac or amp, but he says he's spent many years working in (euphemism for ruining) the studio.
post #51 of 66
Power supplies are built to a price point, and that price point forces manufacturers to make decisions. Some of those decisions lead to the use of components that sacrifice something, ie add noise, have unregulated power, leave more dc ripple than it should, etc. When you remove noisy components, regulate the power supply better and flatten out the dc ripple your sound will improve. How much it improves depends on how bad it was before and how well implemented the new design is. Some mods are simply a waste of money, while others make dramatic improvements.

Sounds like you don't have the money to waste, and if you're enjoying your rig why not simply continue enjoying it until such a time as you can afford round-trip shipping for the replacement power supply if it doesn't perform up to your expectations. HeadRoom offers a return policy, so it will only cost you shipping fees round-trip to Israel is it doesn't work.
post #52 of 66
Since this is the Science subforum can anyone provide links to controlled blind tests that actually show *audible* differences derived from different power supplies ?
post #53 of 66
Oh, and to add one more thing, gregorio no longer comes here. With all the attacks he recieved when he was only sharing his knowledge and experience (yeah, that thing people keep claiming that is the only important thing) he thought it was not worth it.

I understand him very good, as some people like haloxt (or blueyez II) or currawong keep insulting him even if gone... What a shame.
post #54 of 66
It's a shame gregario doesn't post here anymore, my middle finger will lose much of its muscular strength gained from having to scroll past his long posts.
post #55 of 66
It's too bad gregorio doesn't stop in anymore, but I can understand his frustration. I happen to agree with his paragraph below, as qualified by his last statement about standard fluctuations and, as implied, plugging directly into the wall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregorio View Post
For those of you new to this, upgrading your power cables or power supplies may make your system look prettier but will make no difference to the sound quality. If for some reason you do hear a difference then you need to buy a new DAC (or whatever) as it has obviously been unbelievably badly designed if it's own PSU can't handle standard fluctuations in mains power.
For gear that accepts wall AC directly, you would want that gear to have been designed so that it operates just fine with voltage sags and rises with tolerance. If your home voltage or current is having serious issues, it is time to upgrade your mains box or talk to an electrician.

But lots of gear also assumes clean power. No DC, no strange noise (e.g. a bad fluorescent ballast on the same circuit), etc. Professional venues would be a disaster. Even a good power transformer isn't going to get rid of all of that. Sometimes a small line filter can be included in the AC inlet, but the better line filters cost big bucks and also take up a lot of space. Enough big bucks to have a significant dent on the customer's wallet and so it gets left out.

Other gear accepts power from a wall wart or some other external power supply. Typical wall warts are switching supplies, because they can be smaller and more efficient, which means some high frequency noise and EMI/RFI that you want to have filtered or shielded. (Poor non-switching power supplies can have the same problem.)

My concern with this type of noise isn't so much that you'll hear the noise in your music, other than as a higher noise floor, but that if this noise gets into the audio circuit, then it could have an effect on internal signals and clocks or downstream components. That is part of why regulatory testing measures for EMI/RFI and output signal noise. Although not for the purpose of preventing audio degradation.

My concern with power supplies and circuits that cannot maintain each component's desired voltage and current is that the operational behavior of the component will suffer.
post #56 of 66
Russ Andrews does some great mains conditioners.If you get the mains lead go for the classic or reference.
post #57 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by THAY BRAN View Post
Russ Andrews does some great mains conditioners.If you get the mains lead go for the classic or reference.
It was the claims for mains leads that the ASA ruled to be bogus


Russ Andrews Accessories Ltd
post #58 of 66
I work for a power generation company...I can assure you that high compression gas fired generators sound the best. Obviously they go to 11.


On a more serious note, please for the love of all that is holy dont buy any of this stuff until you have run a dedicated 15 or 20 amp circuit for your audio gear. Maybe 2 or 3 for a dedicated theater, listening, or studio area. Dont put ANYTHING but audio and video processing gear - no lights, etc. Make sure you spend as much per foot in the wall as you want to from the outlet. I would not put computers (desktops especially) in the same circuit as your audio gear - the power supplies can leak noise back up the line.

Be wary of cable tv grounding - it can wreck havoc on power distribution in a house when using coax/component connections...hdmi/dvi doesnt seem to be as nasty.

Power can be a serious pain in the ass, but dont go exotic until you have the basics in the walls and from a grounding/separation perspective.

Once you have clean power from the pole, you can go wild on this topic...but you need to think about how power is delivered inside your house a little...
post #59 of 66
OP,
i would also consider wiring a dedicated hi-fi circuit from the household AC if possible. you may also want to consider a star-grounded power-strip - Wiremold makes one that's around $25.
post #60 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pars View Post
One reason might be that posts 12-14 dealt with power cables? I guess that's OK, to drift from a discussion of PSUs to power cables, but not to diss power cables once they are brought up?

As far as the OP goes, once the signal hits the first gain device in an amp, you are basically listening to the power supply (being modulated by said gain device). Its rejection of noise on its input, and of noise coming back in from the section it is powering are both important aspects of its sonic performance.
While this might be basicly true, it modulates it at the PSRR, which for most op-amps is above 50db anywhere in the audio range, and is boosted to above 100db easly with a low-pass filter on the supply. Power supply will always be a (small) part in audi circuits, however most are overdesigned and entirely swamped by the noise inherent to the circuit.

Worse, often simple changes that could considerably change the noise figure are not implemented as power supply fetish didn't leave enough time for that. The sad state of audiophile equipment engineering.
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