HiFiMAN HM-801 Portable Player / DAC Review: Part One of Two - Page 39

Quote:

Originally Posted by trentino 

My god, $700 for a portable high end DAC.
 

 

Fixed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwood 

 

Speculations about replicating the entire sound quality of a different DAC with a simple EQ adjustment is laughable.   

 

-Ed
 

Actually, I think it is a suitable thought-experiment. Sonic748i explicitly opined that it was the roll-off that made the sound so nice. I was suggesting that even a roll-off at 16k (as exemplified by some tests on low pass filters by some Japanese researchers) may not be terribly easy to hear and thus may not be the cause of the perceived difference. Having said that when you see the FR for the HN801 the response is so bad (non-linear) you would have to apply a complex EQ rather than a simple low pass to accurately mimic it - still doable and possibly valuable as an experiment...Now the Wadia FR by contrast would be relatively easy to replicate. You could get a sample form a Wadia and from a cheaper but flat FR Cd player and then adjust the one to match the other, I think that would be a fascinating experiment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick_charles 

Actually, I think it is a suitable thought-experiment. Sonic748i explicitly opined that it was the roll-off that made the sound so nice. I was suggesting that even a roll-off at 16k (as exemplified by some tests on low pass filters by some Japanese researchers) may not be terribly easy to hear and thus may not be the cause of the perceived difference. Having said that when you see the FR for the HN801 the response is so bad (non-linear) you would have to apply a complex EQ rather than a simple low pass to accurately mimic it - still doable and possibly valuable as an experiment...Now the Wadia FR by contrast would be relatively easy to replicate. You could get a sample form a Wadia and from a cheaper but flat FR Cd player and then adjust the one to match the other, I think that would be a fascinating experiment.

You can't judge sound quality by frequency response, it's been taught to us when looking for headphones, earphones or speakers. Same applies to the source. The HM-801 simply takes the more natural route instead of the neutral route. Also, there is little to no information above 16khz. Brightness is around the 6 to 10khz. I love the upper treble cut off because it makes the sound a lot more smoother and lush which is how I want it. Not a cold, sterile and boring sound like a Benchmark DAC.

That's why Nick proposed it as an experiment, which implies the lack of certainty concerning the result.

**** me, that monstrosity looks rubbish. How much?

Someone somewhere is going to be sleeping on a bed made of money tonight, laughing their **** off.

*Moderator Edit of cursing*

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by trentino 

My god, $700 for a not very portable supposedly high end DAC.
 

 

Fixed x2!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danneq 

Fixed x2!

You couldn't FAIL harder...

Well, after you have sampled all the DAP:s ever made to check their sound signature compared to the HifiMan, it cannot be claimed to be the best sounding one ever. Also, sound signature preference is something subjective.

Anyway, I do not have anything against the HifiMan itself. If it was at a more reasonable price, I wouldn't mind checking it out. But the almost evangelistic or even shill like behavior of some of people at these boards are ensuring me to keep away.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danneq 

Well, after you have sampled all the DAP:s ever made to check their sound signature compared to the HifiMan, it cannot be claimed to be the best sounding one ever. Also, sound signature preference is something subjective.

 

Anyway, I do not have anything against the HifiMan itself. If it was at a more reasonable price, I wouldn't mind checking it out. But the almost evangelistic or even shill like behavior of some of people at these boards are ensuring me to keep away.

There is no a case of preferred sound signature. The HiFiMAN simply has better sound quality than every portable I've listened to. Many others can back me up on this also.
 

Which portables HAVE you listened to?

I am sure that it sounds great, but there are other great sounding (and sadly obscure) DAP:s. No matter the sound signature (I prefer that expression to "sound quality" and our preferences ARE subjective, and the expression "sound signature" better reflects that), the high price makes it a no go for the majority of people. Not because they cannot afford it, but that in relation to the actual use of the DAP (i.e. portable use outside), the price is not worth it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick_charles 

Actually, I think it is a suitable thought-experiment. Sonic748i explicitly opined that it was the roll-off that made the sound so nice. I was suggesting that even a roll-off at 16k (as exemplified by some tests on low pass filters by some Japanese researchers) may not be terribly easy to hear and thus may not be the cause of the perceived difference. Having said that when you see the FR for the HN801 the response is so bad (non-linear) you would have to apply a complex EQ rather than a simple low pass to accurately mimic it - still doable and possibly valuable as an experiment...Now the Wadia FR by contrast would be relatively easy to replicate. You could get a sample form a Wadia and from a cheaper but flat FR Cd player and then adjust the one to match the other, I think that would be a fascinating experiment.

Yeah, but that would be like putting yourself on a chair on a roller track that can push you to predetermined acceleration rates.  And then saying that method accurately simulated driving every kind of car in different circumstances.

-Ed

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danneq 

Which portables HAVE you listened to?

 

I am sure that it sounds great, but there are other great sounding (and sadly obscure) DAP:s. No matter the sound signature (I prefer that expression to "sound quality" and our preferences ARE subjective, and the expression "sound signature" better reflects that), the high price makes it a no go for the majority of people. Not because they cannot afford it, but that in relation to the actual use of the DAP (i.e. portable use outside), the price is not worth it.

Re-read the first post of this thread, thank you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonic 748i 

Re-read the first post of this thread, thank you.

Okay, have re-read the first post. And?

I think we are talking on different wavelengths. A bit like if an atheist and a deeply religious person talks about existence in philosophical terms. While the atheist sees existence as not having definite absolutes and that everyone might see the world in a subjective light, the religious person keeps pointing to authorities and holy scriptures. I dislike that "my way is the right way and those all who do not agree are blind to the truth" attitude and whenever I encounter it, I object. Someone, no name mentioned, offered a test where people could listen to the same piece of music recorded from the headphone out of 3 DAP:s and also one FLAC version ripped from CD. That person was told that his way of testing was incorrect and then his thread got removed in a fashion that is akin to censorship. Is it because the maker of the HifiMan is a main sponsor of this place? There's something fishy about the whole mess.

I am not critical of the DAP itself. It might be a nice addition to the DAP world, especially for those who are after the "ultimate sq". I do not think that there is equipment that is completely transparent and that chasing after that is a bit like chasing after the rainbow. But to each his own, I say.

If someone cares more about how a DAP reproduces music than the actual music itself, so be it.

So we might agree on 2 things:

1. this discussion is pointless since we are completely talking past each other, and

2. your avatar is cool. I am a Sega fan and to me the Sega Dreamcast is the best video game console ever made. PS3 and even PS2 might be leaps and bounds above it when it comes to pure specs, but just as the music is most important to me when it comes to DAP:s, the gaming experience is the best when it comes to consoles. To each, his own!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwood 

 

Yeah, but that would be like putting yourself on a chair on a roller track that can push you to predetermined acceleration rates.  And then saying that method accurately simulated driving every kind of car in different circumstances.

 

-Ed

I don't know why you insist on these analogies. It is nothing like that. There are two questions here. 1. How audible is a given roll-off and 2 Is a given roll-off responsible for any perceived difference in sound. It may not be possible to answer these questions but it would be intriguing to try. First you take A the item with the roll-off and B the similar item without the roll-off and you carefully compare them. If in fact no difference is found then you stop. If a difference is found, then you can hypothesise about whether the roll-off is responsible. So to item B you add the roll-off and do the comparison again. If now no difference is found you have evidence to support the hypothesis that the roll-off is responsible, if not you have to look elsewhere for explanations. 

Anyway, sorry for the sidetrack I wont post here any more. I'll discuss this in PM if necessary.