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HiFiMAN HM-801 Portable Player / DAC Review: Part One of Two - Page 9

post #121 of 622
always want a pair of HF-1...now it's my time!
post #122 of 622
Hi resolution player for high resolution ears...

How much does it cost?
post #123 of 622
Modular design looks good, but I think for storage 2.5" HD would be useful. Perhaps with 1GB RAM so it copies playlist/album so HD isn't powered up all the time.

Gapless is a must. As mentioned similar in features to H140 but higher capacity. HDCD decoding, and perhaps DTS/DD downmixing 2 channel and Dolby Headphone.
post #124 of 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by Podtweaker View Post
No one has even mentioned the future possibility of the 24/96khz firmware update. Are you kidding me?? No one is interested in a portable player that may be able to play hi-rez music?
Yes this will be very nice. I have started buying 24/96 flac downloads from the Linn webshop but don't have any device capable of playing them at the resolution. RockBox plays them but downsamples to 16/44.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan View Post
Is EQ really that big a deal-breaker?
Not to me but gapless is as most of my listening is classical music
post #125 of 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by iriverdude View Post
Modular design looks good, but I think for storage 2.5" HD would be useful. Perhaps with 1GB RAM so it copies playlist/album so HD isn't powered up all the time.

Gapless is a must. As mentioned similar in features to H140 but higher capacity. HDCD decoding, and perhaps DTS/DD downmixing 2 channel and Dolby Headphone.
2.5" HDD is just too large and noisy. You're basically describing a netbook computer or UMPC.

But, yeah. I'd love true gapless, but it's not a must for me.

-Ed
post #126 of 622
Quote:
2.5" HDD is just too large and noisy.
No they're not, my HTPC is running off one and you cannot hear it from 2' away. In fact I'd say the one in my HTPC is quieter than the one in the H140, I can hear the H140 clicking away but the HTPC one I cannot- and have used it inside a 2.5" USB case.

I'd be willing to put up with a slightly larger HD for whopping amounts of storage on the cheap, won't need to batch convert my flac- and have another copy for backup. 500GB is £70. Perhaps a 4200rpm 2.5" could be produced for high capacity, low power consumption storage.
post #127 of 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by iriverdude View Post
Modular design looks good, but I think for storage 2.5" HD would be useful. Perhaps with 1GB RAM so it copies playlist/album so HD isn't powered up all the time.

Gapless is a must. As mentioned similar in features to H140 but higher capacity. HDCD decoding, and perhaps DTS/DD downmixing 2 channel and Dolby Headphone.
Why not add video support while you are at it? Oh wait....

I can understand people wanting gapless (and is the only thing I could want that is not already supported myself) and maybe an EQ, but that's just way too much stuff to add this late in development.

As already stated, go get a netbook.

Oh, did jude die or something?
post #128 of 622
Netbooks don't have quality analogue stage. Also no supplied firmware/front end you'd need Media Portal. So have to wait a few minutes for OS to boot plus MP to load.
post #129 of 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by swanlee View Post
Part of the issue is for the money why should we have to sacrifice anything? With this device we will have to sacrifice storage space, battery life and audio customization options. I fully support the endeavor to make a high end portable audiophile device but why does that have to entail stripping out some very basic and very necessarily features?

If we are willing to pay for it why can't we have our cake and eat it to?
I get what you're saying but it's impossible. No matter how much money you spend on something you're going to be compromising. As an extreme example, The $1.5m Bugatti Veyron doesn't have the nifty electronics that a $60,000 Mercedes has. You buy a Ferrarri because it's powerful, not because it has lots of trunk space.

Think of it in comparison to its competitors:
Storage Space: Other than than the iPod Classic and Zune, no one else offers more memory than 32gb on new players. Even the iMods top out at 60gb, and lots of modders are replacing iMod hard drives with flash cards (of, yep, 32gb).

Lack of EQ: The Zune also lacks EQ to conserve battery life. It's a disadvantage, but what's the point of buying a 'warm' amp or 'roomy' headphones if you're just gonna use EQ to cancel those defining characteristics?

Battery Life: Compared to new players it's weak, no doubt. This is a major weakness and hard to defend. At least the battery's user replaceable.

Gapless: The pre-order thread mentions that the gaps are barely noticable. If we could get a recording of the output it would help us understand.

Maybe I'm being optimistic because I remember my Creative Nomad Jukebox with 4gigs of memory. It was big, it was heavy, it was expensive, it had all the above disadvantages and more and I still loved it. We've become so used to 'pointless features we don't need' that the hf-man is a culture shock.

I think if it sounds amazing and is easy to use, its advantages as an all-in-one audiophile solution could far outweigh the disadvantages. Whether it manages or not remains to be seen at Canjam I guess...
post #130 of 622
And the 801 doesn't have those fancy things you mentioned.

Life is full of trade-offs eh?
post #131 of 622
My problem with these "trade-offs" is that if that's the case, then some things shouldn't really be what's advertised. I'll try to make sense.

Agentred said the lack of EQ makes up for the (separate) amp you'll buy, but then why is it advertising a high-quality amp module? I like the thought of the amp modules, but I'd still want some sort of customizing the sound to my liking without spending amounts of money on equipment I have no idea will sound or will even if it will drastically change the sound.

The storage, I can let go, since "Fang wanted to design a portable music player that stored music on removable media--namely, SD cards--and that had its own LCD user interface." but still, I'd argue that a lot of people want bigger storage and I don't think that makes us the "niche of the niche market." But that gets into a whole thing about what made the flash cards so popular and why those who live with music can't survive on the small space ("But you won't listen to 32GB of music in one sitting" has been argued with ad nauseum).

Gapless, "barely noticeable" is still noticeable for me. I may not be able to hear such a difference in sound quality, but as someone who's worked with music sequencing for a while, I will notice the smallest thing off beat even with all the instruments playing so I do go back and tweak it. Imagine how I'll cringe when it comes to whole albums that's an hour long or more. I'm hoping they'll do it in a future update like they say they will.

That's not to say that this isn't worth the money (especially looking at the other things is gives compared to today's players). I just wish that the stuff that some players already offer that's a big plus would be included as well, and I don't think these small things should be "compromises" since they're so fixable.
post #132 of 622
While I'm not the prime target for this product, I'd very seriously consider it with Rockbox and... USB 3.0, because the more memory a player has, the more annoyingly slow USB 2.0 becomes.

Of course, for USB 3.0, I'll have to wait for 2010. That's also why I haven't yet bought a new laptop.

And I agree that gapless is a necessity, for those of us who enjoy classical music and audiobooks.
post #133 of 622
Lack of EQ: The Zune also lacks EQ to conserve battery life. It's a disadvantage,

I have to disagree with you here . If you put source material that sounds great on CD(or better yet ripped the source material from a hybrid SACD) it will sound excellent on your Zune if you used WMA lossless. If you are not using lossless why would even bother looking for the highest SQ player. Compressed files will not sound appreciablly better through higher resolution playback equipment then they will through stock DAPs. How about if we put this EQ issue to rest! If having to use EQ is a must have you don't have to be concerned w/ having elevated SQ capabilities of this degree(It seems I am repeating myself quite a bit, as I am trying very hard not to offend people who may not be getting what is obvious to some of us)
post #134 of 622
Look at what I dug out!
post #135 of 622
While I respect your point of view, it is unfair as a comparison. The Hifiman is dealing with one thing: hifi portable audio. I agree that space is something that does or does not have to be implemented. But not allowing EQ and gapless, one, a feature of every low to ultra high end audio device since up to MP3 players (gapless) and, two, a tweak that allows audiophiles of all walks to enjoy and experiment with.

It is laudable indeed for Fang to market this, but marketing it as audiophile without gapless for one, ignorance of EQ for another is a little harsh on the community and probably going to alienate a user base unless Rockbox could be ported to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agentred View Post
I get what you're saying but it's impossible. No matter how much money you spend on something you're going to be compromising. As an extreme example, The $1.5m Bugatti Veyron doesn't have the nifty electronics that a $60,000 Mercedes has. You buy a Ferrarri because it's powerful, not because it has lots of trunk space.

Think of it in comparison to its competitors:
Storage Space: Other than than the iPod Classic and Zune, no one else offers more memory than 32gb on new players. Even the iMods top out at 60gb, and lots of modders are replacing iMod hard drives with flash cards (of, yep, 32gb).

Lack of EQ: The Zune also lacks EQ to conserve battery life. It's a disadvantage, but what's the point of buying a 'warm' amp or 'roomy' headphones if you're just gonna use EQ to cancel those defining characteristics?

Battery Life: Compared to new players it's weak, no doubt. This is a major weakness and hard to defend. At least the battery's user replaceable.

Gapless: The pre-order thread mentions that the gaps are barely noticable. If we could get a recording of the output it would help us understand.

Maybe I'm being optimistic because I remember my Creative Nomad Jukebox with 4gigs of memory. It was big, it was heavy, it was expensive, it had all the above disadvantages and more and I still loved it. We've become so used to 'pointless features we don't need' that the hf-man is a culture shock.

I think if it sounds amazing and is easy to use, its advantages as an all-in-one audiophile solution could far outweigh the disadvantages. Whether it manages or not remains to be seen at Canjam I guess...
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