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Denon AH-C710, AH-C360 and AH-NC600 ANC - Page 5

post #61 of 106
Great! So it is this over the RE0 then. Now if I only could find the C710 shipped to the Netherlands for less than the ridiculous $50. That would really make my day.
post #62 of 106
Yeah, the price is only the same for the US at this point. And also maybe the RE0's new cable performs better with microphonics than the old one did.
post #63 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by jant71 View Post
I hear some basic similarity to the PFE also. More toward the black filter plus an amp since it is still warmer than the PFE. Maybe take the frequency range and shift it to the left as the Denon goes lower but not quite as high as the PFE. Bigger soundstage but less amount of separation. The treble is quite forward like the PFE but the mids a bit less forward. The bass and mids are better.

I think the Denon's edge out over the RE0 also. Similar detail, better and lower bass, better mids, larger soundstage. Less amount of separation and transparency than the RE0. Same price different signatures. Choose your poison . The Denon is easier to fit and has better iso and microphonics handling than the RE0.
Yea, I agree with your comparison of the PFE w/black and C710. And here is the amazing thing I am hesitant to say, but I think the C710 has a wider stage than the IE8. The presentation is more laid back, further in the concert hall, but what I am hearing is a slightly wider presentation! Wow. But at low volume levels the C710 loses it whereas the IE8 keeps it's sound sig (on notch on E5 or a 4 volume on AMP3).
post #64 of 106
I have heard a change in sensitivity slightly with burn-in. It has changed synergy with some players a bit cause it seems to need a couple more notches volume and that helps with low volume performance a bit. Depends on the volume curve of the player's amp though. Very sensitive to output. Very bassy with my Sony like HONEYBOY was saying. Actually the C710 is not an IE8 or Atrio or FX500. Not really that bassy/warm a phone but amplified with the Sony it is quite boomy. The sound sig is nice for most all players but the sensitivity is the wild card and makes it hard to predict their bassiness and/or brightness.

As far as the soundstage, my first earphone was the JVC FX55 which is one of the best for soundstage. I have now an NX55(neck strap version) which is not finished burning in yet either. The Denon aren't bigger than those or my CK10. They are more further away sounding and more separated/open. It is tied with the NX55(so far)overall and it only beats my AI-M9 with a bit of a bigger soundstage. Not a knock on the Denon even if it ends up in third place since they are all among the best universals and the Denon/CK10/NX55 are very close. A nitpick on my part; everyone will appreciate the Denon soundstage and very headphone-like imaging.

Also I guess I have called them more in your face/closer while Joe called them more laid back /further away. Depends what your comparing to and sources and such. The only Senn I could have compared to was the CX95 which indeed was closer in or more in your face than the Denon. And bringing up the CX95, they were always compared to the C700/751 with the Denon being slightly better. It would be pretty safe to say that the C710 is quite an upgrade to the C751 even if it is cheaper/put below it on their site.
post #65 of 106
Oh well, sounds like a purchase. Akin to the PFEs, but with some advantages? I will give them a shot, via Beach Audio for $90 shipped. I love my phones, W3/ADDIEM/X10/RE3, but what's one more? And I can always sell something.
post #66 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by jant71 View Post
I hear some basic similarity to the PFE also. More toward the black filter plus an amp since it is still warmer than the PFE. Maybe take the frequency range and shift it to the left as the Denon goes lower but not quite as high as the PFE. Bigger soundstage but less amount of separation. The treble is quite forward like the PFE but the mids a bit less forward. The bass and mids are better.

I think the Denon's edge out over the RE0 also. Similar detail, better and lower bass, better mids, larger soundstage. Less amount of separation and transparency than the RE0. Same price different signatures. Choose your poison . The Denon is easier to fit and has better iso and microphonics handling than the RE0.
similar level of detail!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

holy crap are you sure??? you amping the RE0?
post #67 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark2410 View Post
similar level of detail!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

holy crap are you sure??? you amping the RE0?
Of course similar in amount but different. More detail lower in the range and mids but less up top.

RE0 need the bass boost of the Penguin Ultra while the Denon don't, so that is a difference. Still the Ultra bass boost is one of the better implemented ones and not bloated or exaggerated. Similar detail amped or not amped. The RE0 fill in some bass amped which "corrects" them more than the Denon but the C710 still amps nicely but without the sound balance change. The Denon needs the amp less and still feels more complete and has the larger soundstage.

There are things the RE0 misses that the Denon picks up. Should be due to the lower extension and the sensitivity. But I will not say that it has more detail. Some could be fooled. I will say near the same total detail but different in certain places.
post #68 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by jant71 View Post
I have heard a change in sensitivity slightly with burn-in. It has changed synergy with some players a bit cause it seems to need a couple more notches volume and that helps with low volume performance a bit. Depends on the volume curve of the player's amp though. Very sensitive to output. Very bassy with my Sony like HONEYBOY was saying. Actually the C710 is not an IE8 or Atrio or FX500. Not really that bassy/warm a phone but amplified with the Sony it is quite boomy. The sound sig is nice for most all players but the sensitivity is the wild card and makes it hard to predict their bassiness and/or brightness.
They can get a little bassy but the song is supposed to sound bassy IMO. With the AMP3 the bass isn't boomy, just right! Actually the IE8 sounds slightly boomy comparatively, even though the bass frequency curves are much different.

I do notice the warmth difference between the IE8 and C710, wishing the C710 was actually between the 2!

Quote:
As far as the soundstage, my first earphone was the JVC FX55 which is one of the best for soundstage. I have now an NX55(neck strap version) which is not finished burning in yet either. The Denon aren't bigger than those or my CK10. They are more further away sounding and more separated/open. It is tied with the NX55(so far)overall and it only beats my AI-M9 with a bit of a bigger soundstage. Not a knock on the Denon even if it ends up in third place since they are all among the best universals and the Denon/CK10/NX55 are very close. A nitpick on my part; everyone will appreciate the Denon soundstage and very headphone-like imaging.
I still haven't really had time to critically compare, just casually. The presentation of the C710 is further away, giving a sense of a wider presentation on average. As far as total width, I am still not sure as sometimes I think the IE8 is wider. I will know more after burn in when I have time. But I am very happy with the Denon stage presentation.

Quote:
Also I guess I have called them more in your face/closer while Joe called them more laid back /further away. Depends what your comparing to and sources and such. The only Senn I could have compared to was the CX95 which indeed was closer in or more in your face than the Denon. And bringing up the CX95, they were always compared to the C700/751 with the Denon being slightly better. It would be pretty safe to say that the C710 is quite an upgrade to the C751 even if it is cheaper/put below it on their site.
My tips with the IE8 have brought the mids much closer yet widened the presentation and made them more transparent. The C710 presentation is like you stated above, further away sounding in a bigger space. There is a big difference between say the ADDIEM or PK3 and the C710.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tstarn06 View Post
Oh well, sounds like a purchase. Akin to the PFEs, but with some advantages? I will give them a shot, via Beach Audio for $90 shipped. I love my phones, W3/ADDIEM/X10/RE3, but what's one more? And I can always sell something.
Welcome to the club!
post #69 of 106
Well I don't want to rain on anybodys parade but I have the 751's my wife just got the 710's. I was listening to them on my Sony X 1060 and they sound just like the 751's except the bass was a bit bloated on the 710 but then again they only have 10 hours on them .
post #70 of 106
Yep, like I said earlier these try to please everyone. They have a big overall picture yet keep things closer together and layered quite nicely and enjoyably.

How much burn-in so far, Joe? They do get larger and the bass tightens and separates out. Then the guitars and mids become easier to place like you mentioned before with the IE8 vocals easier to pinpoint. I suspect at a certain point they will close the gap in that regard down in the mid-bass and up through the mids. The detail also came through more each day. not sure if it will stop. I would not have placed them like HONEYBOY did regarding details the first day and a half.

Yeah, that sensitivity works well differentiating the bass strength/punch between recordings or passages. Part of what makes them and the IE8 sound more headphone-like.

@ Charles50, they did not wow me out of the box. Almost exactly like my AI-M9 which are real good though. They have gotten much better with burn-in.
post #71 of 106
I have about 24 hours of burn in on them. One of the things I though out of the box is that they lacked that oomph that the IE8 has. I guess to me, that is warmth. I do like the stage presentation quite a bit. I am looking forward to these things when burned in.

They are smooth with the AMP3, no harshness or sibilance, but maybe a little too much treble. And the AMP3 has no EQ. But the great thing about the AMP3 IMO is the bass is just right to me with all my IEMs from the ADDIEM to the IE8 to the C710 as my Fuze sounds a little bloated.

Oh, and I am using the foam under silicon tips, which is the first link under IE8 tips. I didn't like the Sony hybrids as they constricted the soundstage. Runner up was the bi-flange with short bi-flange coming in after that. The Comply tips took away too much detail, although they did seem to tame the treble energy.
post #72 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by average_joe View Post
I have about 24 hours of burn in on them.

Oh, and I am using the foam under silicon tips, which is the first link under IE8 tips. I didn't like the Sony hybrids as they constricted the soundstage. Runner up was the bi-flange with short bi-flange coming in after that. The Comply tips took away too much detail, although they did seem to tame the treble energy.
Will be good to see how close they get to the IE8 and what sort of value buy they end up being. So far so good!

I have just stuck with the medium stock silicone. I'll probably go back and play around later with tips when I feel they are burnt in.
post #73 of 106
How are these (at least initially) at bringing you into the music (along with the music, itself)? It seems that there is at least one area that makes a headphone (IEM) engaging: SE530 midrange, PFE treble/sparkle, etc.

Do these seem to have that ability (at least with some recordings)? Its nice connecting with those songs that hit you with goosebumps/make your toes tap...
post #74 of 106
They do have the nice mids that Denon already have fans of. A bit of sparkle also and some very enjoyable bass. The bass is their best feature. For me, they are very enjoyable. Like a lot of their sound aspects their fun is up there but not the most fun I have experienced in an earphone.

Of course, how fun or toe tapping or how engaging/involving is more subjective and probably a you won't know till you try sort of thing. At least they are inexpensive(again, in the U.S. that is).
post #75 of 106
Your response is just what I was looking for (positive or otherwise)...

I am considering these (as all responses) relating to a set of sub 100 dollar (US) 'phones.

I am just checking for a few opinions before I drop the money! I don't have the ability/freedom right now to keep shaking up the equipment lineup, as I did with the home setup in the past.
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