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REVIEW: ALO Audio Amphora SS headphone amp - Page 4

post #46 of 237
5/7/09 at 10:21pm
Here's my main issue, here's a pic of the board only, except for maybe 10% at the top which is the tail of the 1/4" TRS Jack.



I don't know the exact size here, but it looks like about 2"x1", you know, about the size of say, of a CMOY. That's the Heart of this $1000 amp??

Put it in wood and folks POP Wood.

And all those hard to drive and difficult Headphones out there can be driven well by this 2x1" board and a nine volt battery?? Because it's the best thing out there for up to $1000???

.
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post #47 of 237
5/7/09 at 10:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by indydieselnut View Post
Well, I'm getting my dad's Amphora tomorrow (surprise present for him) and will have a whopping two days (maybe 5 hours listening) before I have to hand it over.

I'm not even going to post impressions based on the first five hours listening to the thing...but I am excited to hear it!!

The car comparison breaks down for me a bit when talking about sound. Sure, a Yugo doesn't compare to a Ferrari in engineering or build quality...but neither does it offer the performance of a Ferrari. One example that rings true for me from my background is a comparison between the violins of Stradivari versus those of Guarneri "Del Gesu". The workmanship, the precision, and the overall physical appeal of the Del Gesu fiddles generally don't stand toe-to-toe with the best Strad had to offer. However, talk to any concertgoer and they'll tell you that the sound of the Del Gesu equals or surpasses many Strads. Del Gesu didn't have the rich patrons Strad did and therefore couldn't afford the best materials. I'm not saying Del Gesu didn't know what he was doing (he did) or that he didn't expend some care on his violins (he did)...I'm just saying that the end result can be a grand sum of the parts and not just one element.

For the record - I'm not calling the Amphora the "Del Gesu" in the sense of lower material or engineering quality...just commenting on the ideas presented by Les.

Like Skylab said - discussion is an integral part of the site. Discuss on!
I either don't always get my point across, or people read into it what they want. The Yugo/Escort point was, I don't have to buy or drive one to know they are a POS. The other car point was that you walk up to what you think is a Vintage Porsche Spyder and look under it to see a VW BUG suspension and motor and realize you've been had. It's not James Dean's Lil Bastard reincarnated. It's a VW Kit Car.

I showed the engine we're dealing with here in the previous post. I don't care how you add up the Big ticket items in the box, you're paying about $500 for that board.

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post #48 of 237
5/7/09 at 10:42pm
From my perspective much of what we have learned to enjoy in this hobby is as much art as it is pure electronics. Yes the electronics may very well be easy to assemble at a low cost but who actually has the ability to apply the art of a designer to bring out that special sound that makes one piece of equipment excel over another.

Someone told me a story about a retired engineer that was the only person who knew where a fix was needed. He told them he would fix the problem for, let's say argument 50,000$. It was a piece of equipment that was costing the firm 100,000$/hr to have down. So the firm jumped at the fix that was proposed. The retired engineer came in and said hit it with a hammer right here.... They did and the piece of equipment work from that day on with a few more hits every now and then. What was that hit with the hammer worth? What was the knowledge of knowing what to do and where worth? This story is much like the present discussion...Yes, I know I butchered the story but my paraphrase gets the point over.

Some people just don't appreciate knowledge and talent as much as bling apparently.
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post #49 of 237
5/7/09 at 10:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by les_garten View Post
Here's my main issue, here's a pic of the board only, except for maybe 10% at the top which is the tail of the 1/4" TRS Jack.



I don't know the exact size here, but it looks like about 2"x1", you know, about the size of say, of a CMOY. That's the Heart of this $1000 amp??

Put it in wood and folks POP Wood.

And all those hard to drive and difficult Headphones out there can be driven well by this 2x1" board and a nine volt battery?? Because it's the best thing out there for up to $1000???

.
Actually I find your post very funny! Not because of what you posted but what many here have been stating for years. These individuals have stated that no portable amp can drive a full size can like the HD600 or the K701 because they run out of juice, do not have the same dynamics, etc. I have for a long time stated that some portable amps can indeed drive full size cans w/o any problems, needless to say I have been laughed at. But now we have a transportable amp which many are finding to be very good to excellent with full size cans and it runs of a 9 volt battery plus its board is quite small. I love it!

Well it seems that w/ the Amphora I may get to laugh after all. BTW, I still stand that the Amphora sounds beautiful!

Quote:
Originally Posted by les_garten View Post
I either don't always get my point across, or people read into it what they want. The Yugo/Escort point was, I don't have to buy or drive one to know they are a POS. The other car point was that you walk up to what you think is a Vintage Porsche Spyder and look under it to see a VW BUG suspension and motor and realize you've been had. It's not James Dean's Lil Bastard reincarnated. It's a VW Kit Car.

I showed the engine we're dealing with here in the previous post. I don't care how you add up the Big ticket items in the box, you're paying about $500 for that board.

.
Now you have crossed the line Mister! As the proud owner of a fully restored 1970 VW Beetle I can say w/o a doubt that it is the best car ever made. Yes IMO it beats all the cars I have owned (BMW, Lexus, Jaguar, Corvette, Nissan, Mazda, etc). O Yeah Baby, Bring It On!



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post #50 of 237
5/7/09 at 10:51pm
Seemingly unimpressive design outperforming more expensive looking counterparts isn't surprising at all.

Let's take desktop computer as an example. For simplicity sake, let's just take into account the performance of the processor(CPU). Now you can buy the top of the line Core 2 Extreme for $1500 or you can overclock the heck out of a decent Core 2 Quad that costs only $300 and outperform the Core 2 Extreme.
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post #51 of 237
5/7/09 at 10:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by slwiser View Post
From my perspective much of what we have learned to enjoy in this hobby is as much art as it is pure electronics. Yes the electronics may very well be easy to assemble at a low cost but who actually has the ability to apply the art of a designer to bring out that special sound that makes one piece of equipment excel over another.

Someone told me a story about a retired engineer that was the only person who knew where a fix was needed. He told them he would fix the problem for, let's say argument 50,000$. It was a piece of equipment that was costing the firm 100,000$/hr to have down. So the firm jumped at the fix that was proposed. The retired engineer came in and said hit it with a hammer right here.... They did and the piece of equipment work from that day on with a few more hits every now and then. What was that hit with the hammer worth? What was the knowledge of knowing what to do and where worth? This story is much like the present discussion...Yes, I know I butchered the story but my paraphrase gets the point over.

Some people just don't appreciate knowledge and talent as much as bling apparently.
Your story kind of illustrates my observations perfectly. There was nothing special about the service rendered, an exorbitant price was paid due to ignorance, everyone felt ripped off in the end. The "secret" was out at that point, and even the office boy could do it from now on.

Everyone interprets stories different obviously...

.
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post #52 of 237
5/7/09 at 10:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrarroyo View Post
Actually I find your post very funny! Not because of what you posted but what many here have been stating for years. These individuals have stated that no portable amp can drive a full size can like the HD600 or the K701 because they run out of juice, do not have the same dynamics, etc. I have for a long time stated that some portable amps can indeed drive full size cans w/o any problems, needless to say I have been laughed at. But now we have a transportable amp which many are finding to be very good to excellent with full size cans and it runs of a 9 volt battery plus its board is quite small. I love it!

Well it seems that w/ the Amphora I may get to laugh after all. BTW, I still stand that the Amphora sounds beautiful!



Now you have crossed the line Mister! As the proud owner of a fully restored 1970 VW Beetle I can say w/o a doubt that it is the best car ever made. Yes IMO it beats all the cars I have owned (BMW, Lexus, Jaguar, Corvette, Nissan, Mazda, etc). O Yeah Baby, Bring It On!



That is a good looking bug...

And I guess in "Fact" it is a Porsche, surprised you didn't wick me on the designer...

.
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post #53 of 237
5/7/09 at 11:00pm
Mr. Porsche rules!
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post #54 of 237
5/7/09 at 11:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrarroyo View Post
As we move forward, I would suggest improving the treble extension. Minor quibble if you ask me.
I would also suggest upgrading it to provide the ability to drive both low and high impedance cans. IMO, A $1,000 audiophile SS amp should be able to handle the task. I'm in the market now for a quality SS amp in this price class, and that's a deal breaker for me. It's not a tube vs. SS issue. The recently reviewed SS C-2C performed well: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...ml#post5581106
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post #55 of 237
5/7/09 at 11:32pm
The IC in the Amphora is NOT AN OPAMP, and it is not a CMOY. It is a NOS (new old stock) IC that is not pin-out compatible with opamps, and you will cause damage to something if you try to install an opamp into the 8-pin socket. This is according to Vinnie Rossi of RWA who does not wish to reveal the proprietary nature of the circuit. The IC is also not in the ground channel, per testing that Naamanf did with a multimeter while I was reviewing Zimm's Amphora.

I found the Amphora to also be extremely transparent with great soundstaging. The only amp in my house that clearly surpasses the Amphora is my maxed Woo WA6 with Sophia rectifier. With the Amphora driving my D2000 and HD600 single ended, it very closely matched my $1250 Single Power Square Wave XL with Blackgate upgrade, which was driving those same headphones balanced vs the Amphora single ended. (4-pin XLR APS V3 cables with SE and balanced adapters). I also thought it was better than an EF-1, Cavalli CTH, HR Micro Amp, Headfive or my best portable amps like the P-51 Mustang, Predator, Pico and 3MOVE.

Mine drives my AKG K240M 600 Ohm to great sound and slightly louder than normal listening volumes. It does even better when I change my source from iMod to my PS Audio Digital Link III which has pretty hot outputs.
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post #56 of 237
5/7/09 at 11:34pm
in my experience when someone tries to avoid answering questions about a design by calling it proprietary it's usually because they are trying to hide what it really is...
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post #57 of 237
5/8/09 at 12:33am
Les, don't forget there's no transformer and power supply circuit in there, so that's a big chunk of electronics that aren't necessary. If RWA has essentially designed the world's best portable amp, good on them!
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post #58 of 237
5/8/09 at 12:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Currawong View Post
Les, don't forget there's no transformer and power supply circuit in there, so that's a big chunk of electronics that aren't necessary. If RWA has essentially designed the world's best portable amp, good on them!
Well, I really had no idea this was a "Portable"? So it's made to throw in the backpack and travel on Delta Airlines? Doesn't really look lik it. I thought it was reviewed as the owner of the $1000 amp price bracket. Those Caps are kinda hangin' out in Mid air? I would think you would secure them. What about bending the shaft on that attenuator, that would make you sick, or putting a big scratch in that wood case. The power supply for this amp is a wall wart I think? I realize it doesn't run off it, but that's apart of the power system. It is pure DC as you mention. Would be interesting to see what it would cost with a Transfo and a Power supply board, maybe in a second case. Holy Mackeral!

.
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post #59 of 237
5/8/09 at 1:01am
Les, most, if not all, the RWA gear runs off batteries, to avoid pollution from the power supply, and the Signature 30.2 has been compared favourably to amps worth $30k. Don't forget that your main DAC is over 80% power conditioning circuitry and very little actual DAC.
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post #60 of 237
5/8/09 at 1:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tkam View Post
in my experience when someone tries to avoid answering questions about a design by calling it proprietary it's usually because they are trying to hide what it really is...
Does it matter when the sound is this good?
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