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Headphone Amp vs Pre Amp (is there a difference)

post #1 of 7
Thread Starter 
Hello,
What I'm looking for is to get more volume out of my Cownon D2 as I use it in my motorcycles audio system (which is built for mp3 hook up) the bikes stereo is 80WPC x4. My previous mp3 player was a Creative Nomad Zen Extra Jukebox which now I know put out more volume over the new D2. I had used the Creative for years and it always sounded great.

I then decided to update to a flash player and went with the D2, ths output was less as you could tell on both the home stereo as well as in the bike.

So I figured no biggie I would just get one of these headphone amps. I started with the Boostaroo and was not satisfied what so ever. Next I did some searching and came across the ELectric Ave website and contacted Gary who suggested that the PA2V2 amp would work. He sent it out and I gave it a try, but still not enough output.

Am I barking up the wrong tree here? Do I what a portable headphone amp or somthing else (just a pre-amp) if there is a difference.

I'm new to this stuff the sound of the D2 is great but it just does not put out enough volume. If I remember correctly when I seatched for my first Mp3 player I looked for it by what the player put out, at that time I believe the Zen was 100+ X2 mw and now the D2 ir 39MW x2. I know that the manufacure claims are always taken with a grain of salt but since I was able to play both of these units both in the home (McIntosh 4100 receiver /w Klispch Heresy speakers ) and also through the motorcycles (08 Honda GL1800 Goldwing) the Creative was much louder.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated and if anyone knows of a pre amp or headphone amp that would work for my application I would like to hear about it. Price wise I probably would like to keep it under $150 and if possible have the unit work both on batteries and also with AC or charger as this would be used for the home and on the bike.

Many thanks,
John
post #2 of 7
Try a high gain Cmoy if you are on a budget. I believe that there is a seller on eBay making motorcycle Cmoy's that run of of your motorcycle power and mount on it. This could be uber convinient if you get one of those motorcycle helmets with headphones built in.

A pre-amp is something different. Yes, there are headphone amps that also function as pre-amps, but because something is a pre-amp does not mean that it is headphone amp.

Headphones need very low output impedance (single digits or low doubles) with it ideally being lower than 1 ohm to interact with the standard range of headphones well. Now a pre-amp doesn't have to worry so much about that because it isn't going to be driving a load any more than what your cable is. That is why you can see 600 ohm or 1k ohm output impedance on a pre-amp. That wouldn't really work for headphones. In many cases they don't have much output power since it really isn't needed. In really hifi systems, a pre-amp will provide some gain and volume control for the power amp (along with other things). Of course there is more to it, but someone else can chime in as I am by no means an expert on the subject matter.

Soooo....just find a nice cheap headphone amp
post #3 of 7
Thread Starter 
Thanks,
Yes I have a Arai helmet with the built in J&M headphones as mentioned the bike does have a built in factory stereo system that is setup like a car and has a plug for the Mp3. The bikes stereo is equal to most quailty car ones with a seperate amplifier putting out 80wpx into 4 speakers, those speakers are built into the dash and into the trunk.

The rub is that I also use the Mp3 player for use on the home stereo so I would prefer a battery/ AC unit so I could use it on both.

I will look into it but would like to hear some more feedback. Electric Avenue also makes one for the motorcycles , its called the Amplirider or somthing like that but the seller said that I would be better off with what I currently have which is nice with my headphones but not so through the bike or home stsreo.

John

Quote:
Originally Posted by -=Germania=- View Post
Try a high gain Cmoy if you are on a budget. I believe that there is a seller on eBay making motorcycle Cmoy's that run of of your motorcycle power and mount on it. This could be uber convinient if you get one of those motorcycle helmets with headphones built in.

A pre-amp is something different. Yes, there are headphone amps that also function as pre-amps, but because something is a pre-amp does not mean that it is headphone amp.

Headphones need very low output impedance (single digits or low doubles) with it ideally being lower than 1 ohm to interact with the standard range of headphones well. Now a pre-amp doesn't have to worry so much about that because it isn't going to be driving a load any more than what your cable is. That is why you can see 600 ohm or 1k ohm output impedance on a pre-amp. That wouldn't really work for headphones. In many cases they don't have much output power since it really isn't needed. In really hifi systems, a pre-amp will provide some gain and volume control for the power amp (along with other things). Of course there is more to it, but someone else can chime in as I am by no means an expert on the subject matter.

Soooo....just find a nice cheap headphone amp
post #4 of 7
well you could just upgrade to the cowon S9 which has much mire respectable power output unamped. other than that I would recommend an AMB mini^3 high current version if on a budget; actually if you have a budget in mind and would rather just skip to a guaranteed option rather than baby steps there is a whole other family of portables I would recommend, but without a budget its hard for me to make an appropriate recommendation for you
post #5 of 7
Thread Starter 
I believe from test done that the D2 put out more than the S9 see here:
A little test on how loud some players really are - General MP3 Player Discussion - abi>>forums

What would be a guarnteed option?


FWIW the S9 I have been looking at but I need somthing that would hold more than 32gb if I was going to upgrade as well as have more output that the D2. I did see that the O2 does but the reviews on that player were not to favorable.

Thanks,
JOhn
Quote:
Originally Posted by qusp View Post
well you could just upgrade to the cowon S9 which has much mire respectable power output unamped. other than that I would recommend an AMB mini^3 high current version if on a budget; actually if you have a budget in mind and would rather just skip to a guaranteed option rather than baby steps there is a whole other family of portables I would recommend, but without a budget its hard for me to make an appropriate recommendation for you
post #6 of 7
I am using a Mini^3 with my Flash based player and helmet mounted speakers. It made it loud enough for me to hear at freeway speeds, where before at 70+ I could barely hear (with earplugs in of course).

I built my own, and actually got the parts to build both the extended power version and the high performance version. I build the extended power, and will also build the high performance, then sell the one I don't wish to keep.

With the rechargeable battery it works great both on and off the bike.
post #7 of 7
Thread Starter 
Tried the Electric Avenues Pav amp and although it was nice for my headphones at home it offered little for the bike stereo system. I must say that Gary at Electric Avenues was one of the best people that I have ever delt with.

Bottom line I discovered that my D2 worked much better with the EQ in Rock mode over Normal! As a matter of fact I totally satisfied with it for that application.

Aslo I picked up a S9 - 32GB and tried it on the bike as well as home and I found out that the best results were with that was also set in normal mode. I must say output wise the D2 still kicks ass.................


No need for any type of pre amp anymore. Now I just wished that someone would come out with a dedicated MP3 player that worked on AC for the home analog stereo for us old farts. As you know many of up have lots of music stored that we would love to be able to be able to have hooked up to our analog equiptment. :tongu e_smile:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tightwad View Post
I am using a Mini^3 with my Flash based player and helmet mounted speakers. It made it loud enough for me to hear at freeway speeds, where before at 70+ I could barely hear (with earplugs in of course).

I built my own, and actually got the parts to build both the extended power version and the high performance version. I build the extended power, and will also build the high performance, then sell the one I don't wish to keep.

With the rechargeable battery it works great both on and off the bike.
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