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post #1456 of 1788

...

 

what the **** is that ****

 

No seriously, this is new, I've never seen this driver before. The baffle plate implies series 3 but the housing of the driver is completely different than anything I've seen Koss produce; how does it sound to you? Good? Bad? How large is it (diameter)? 55mm is a standard Koss driver but this looks quite large...

 

Very interesting piece.


Edited by takato14 - 4/6/15 at 11:19am
post #1457 of 1788
Quote:
Originally Posted by takato14 View Post
 

...

 

what the **** is that ****

 

No seriously, this is new, I've never seen this driver before. The baffle plate implies series 3 but the housing of the driver is completely different than anything I've seen Koss produce; how does it sound to you? Good? Bad? How large is it (diameter)? 55mm is a standard Koss driver but this looks quite large...

 

Very interesting piece.


Oh dear, I feel I've broken the internet LoL.

 

The driver is about 55mm with the housing close to 95mm.

 

Spending time with these yesterday evening to this morning, I'd say the sound is rather neutral with a slant to the treble and mids. The bass is dead flat but is very present and coherent, it goes down quite deep with a bit of a rumble with certain tracks. The mid's are interesting, no peaks or harshness, very clear and present. Treble extends quite nicely but not too piercing but brings extra detail to the music.

 

For a closed headphone the soundscape is larger than expected, you do get a good projection all around your head. It doesn't sound like your in a cave and sounds quite open to be honest.  Detail and clarity is nice and is very engaging, as I said early the Prat is better than say, my Sennheiser Momentum's. Where the Momentum's are dark/warm the KC180's are more bright/warm, these complement my momentum's quite well if you're looking for a brighter, livelier tone (Still love the momentum's thou!).

 

Build quality is feels like it's built from a different era with tough black plastic, the headband is nothing special but the saving grace is the ear cups! The pads are soft and supportive and a step up from the cheap faux leather pads you see on cheap headphones. As you saw with the driver themselves, they definitely look bigger than most cheapies. I have a pair of HM5's and I dare say the KC180's driver's are superior (as in bigger) than the HM5's. I had the cable measured at the stall I bought these from and measure to about 100ohm's! Perhaps I'll get the stall holder to re-cable later down the track!

 

I've sent Koss and email hoping to get an answer soon that might shed some light on these puppies. These are my first headphone's from Koss and I'm very eager to try more! In the box is an old coloured brochure with many other Koss "Stereophone" of the day i.e. Pro4AAA and even the ESP/10. Funnily the brochure doesn't say much about the KC180 at all!

 

Question: Do you know much about this "Mylar Cone element"? Do they have this type of cone on the newer headphones?

 

 


Edited by volly - 4/6/15 at 4:54pm
post #1458 of 1788

You are supposed to say they sound terrible until everyone else gets one for themselves.:ph34r:

 

 No luck finding much except this. They are from around 1983/84. Possibly after possible earlier also.

http://wegavision.pytalhost.com/Koos/Koos83/02.jpg bottom left corner.

 

I wonder if Realistic has a version of these floating around? I'll dowse their old catalog listings and see sometime soon.

 

The drivers are ~ 90 ohm so the cable measurement is correct  How was the foam inside the cups-if there was any -  was it intact still?

 

 

I've never seen the KC 25 drivers ( are there any pics? ), wonder how the two compare?


Edited by nick n - 4/6/15 at 11:41pm
post #1459 of 1788
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick n View Post
 

You are supposed to say they sound terrible until everyone else gets one for themselves.:ph34r:

 

 No luck finding much except this. They are from around 1983/84. Possibly after possible earlier also.

http://wegavision.pytalhost.com/Koos/Koos83/02.jpg bottom left corner.

 

I wonder if Realistic has a version of these floating around? I'll dowse their old catalog listings and see sometime soon.

 

The drivers are ~ 90 ohm so the cable measurement is correct  How was the foam inside the cups-if there was any -  was it intact still?

 

 

I've never seen the KC 25 drivers ( are there any pics? ), wonder how the two compare?


Hrmmm more intrigue, these are the pics from inside the cups.

 

 


As you can see, not much dampening. Tempted to try some mods but I think I'll just leave them be and keep them stock!

 

Pads are in pretty good condition without any blemishes or tears.

 

Inside the box is a catalogue very similar to your link Nick, I might scan and upload it too.

 

I'm not in to burn-in but I dare say the sound is slowly changing or perhaps brain is adapting to sound.

 

Thanks for looking in to it guys, appreciate it!

post #1460 of 1788

I have a pair of koss reference one I bought at pacific stereo in the 70's. Price tag on box says $60. I remember they cost less than the Pro/4aaa. The salesman said they sounded better too and he was right.They won't let me post a picture yet since i'm new to this

forum.

 

specs on reference one

 

50mm diameter dynamic elements with 25mm voice coils

 

impedence    3.2 to 600 ohms

 

freq response      10-20000 Hz

 

distortion    less than 1% at 100 dB SPL at 1 kHz

 

sound pressure level 94  dB SPL / .6v at 1kz

post #1461 of 1788
Quote:
Originally Posted by strlght122 View Post
 

I have a pair of koss reference one I bought at pacific stereo in the 70's. Price tag on box says $60. I remember they cost less than the Pro/4aaa. The salesman said they sounded better too and he was right.They won't let me post a picture yet since i'm new to this

forum.

 

specs on reference one

 

50mm diameter dynamic elements with 25mm voice coils

 

impedence    3.2 to 600 ohms

 

freq response      10-20000 Hz

 

distortion    less than 1% at 100 dB SPL at 1 kHz

 

sound pressure level 94  dB SPL / .6v at 1kz


Does it look like this one bro?

 


I'm really enjoy the sound signature of the Koss, I'm definitely on the look out for more! The KC 180's are a rough diamond, the sound at first is much, much different to something like the Sennheiser Momentum's but I'm loving the energy these Koss cans bring! Just really enjoyable!

post #1462 of 1788
Quote:
Originally Posted by strlght122 View Post
 

I have a pair of koss reference one I bought at pacific stereo in the 70's. Price tag on box says $60. I remember they cost less than the Pro/4aaa. The salesman said they sounded better too and he was right.They won't let me post a picture yet since i'm new to this

forum.

 

specs on reference one

 

50mm diameter dynamic elements with 25mm voice coils

 

impedence    3.2 to 600 ohms

 

freq response      10-20000 Hz

 

distortion    less than 1% at 100 dB SPL at 1 kHz

 

sound pressure level 94  dB SPL / .6v at 1kz

...No, he was not right. The 4AAA and Reference One use the same drivers. The 4AAA seals better and has a better soundstage. It's also lighter and more comfortable. I've owned both. The Reference One is just an unusual variant of the main line that doesn't really exist for any particular reason.

 

Also, the drivers are 55m, but the active diaphragm area is 50mm.


Edited by takato14 - 4/13/15 at 11:29pm
post #1463 of 1788
Quote:
Originally Posted by takato14 View Post
 

...No, he was not right. The 4AAA and Reference One use the same drivers. The 4AAA seals better and has a better soundstage. It's also lighter and more comfortable. I've owned both. The Reference One is just an unusual variant of the main line that doesn't really exist for any particular reason.

 

Also, the drivers are 55m, but the active diaphragm area is 50mm.


Taka-son, would you recommend any other Koss headphones from the vintage era or perhaps anything from this era?

post #1464 of 1788

SE-205 on the left (very mint condition and great sound) and Monitor on the right. 

 

 

post #1465 of 1788
Quote:
Originally Posted by volly View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by takato14 View Post
 

...No, he was not right. The 4AAA and Reference One use the same drivers. The 4AAA seals better and has a better soundstage. It's also lighter and more comfortable. I've owned both. The Reference One is just an unusual variant of the main line that doesn't really exist for any particular reason.

 

Also, the drivers are 55m, but the active diaphragm area is 50mm.


Taka-son, would you recommend any other Koss headphones from the vintage era or perhaps anything from this era?

 it'd be takato-sama

 

and no, the 4AAA is the only one I can recommend but that's conditional on mods and getting a series 2 version

 

check here for more info: http://wiki.faust3d.com/wiki/index.php?title=Koss_PRO/4AAA

post #1466 of 1788

Takato, what did I say that was not right? My subjective opinion on which sounds better? I own both and for listening to music at home I prefer the reference one. For work I use the pro4aaa.I'm retired now, but I spent 30 years mixing live sound at a medium size  venue in Chicago so I trust my ears are OK. I'm no expert on headphones nor do I want to be.I just like vintage equipment.Currently own Carver C1 modded, Carver M1.0t modded, JBL L112, Thorens TD160, ShureMy  V15 type 3, Koss reference one, Koss pro4aaa series two. I should say i own half a pro4aaa. Right diaphram is blown. Someone on ebay had what looked like the left half of a pro4aaa so I gambled $16 to buy it. Will know more when it arrives. Are the left and right side diaphrams the same? I assume they are. What do you think? 

post #1467 of 1788
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oregonian View Post
 

SE-205 on the left (very mint condition and great sound) and Monitor on the right. 

 

 


Woooo....I love the look of the monitor on the right! :O

post #1468 of 1788

Yes,that's it.

post #1469 of 1788
Quote:
Originally Posted by strlght122 View Post
 

Takato, what did I say that was not right? My subjective opinion on which sounds better? I own both and for listening to music at home I prefer the reference one. For work I use the pro4aaa.I'm retired now, but I spent 30 years mixing live sound at a medium size  venue in Chicago so I trust my ears are OK. I'm no expert on headphones nor do I want to be.I just like vintage equipment.Currently own Carver C1 modded, Carver M1.0t modded, JBL L112, Thorens TD160, ShureMy  V15 type 3, Koss reference one, Koss pro4aaa series two. I should say i own half a pro4aaa. Right diaphram is blown. Someone on ebay had what looked like the left half of a pro4aaa so I gambled $16 to buy it. Will know more when it arrives. Are the left and right side diaphrams the same? I assume they are. What do you think? 

Are you SURE you have a series 2 4AAA? It's extremely rare and difficult to spot. Maybe you have a series 3 instead? Here's a guide.

 

KOSS PRO Driver Guide (Click to show)

Series 1:

 

 

 

 

Most common of the three. White and black housing with a paper damper attached using a clear plastic bolt.

 

Series 2: 

 
 

 

Similar to the first series but with a thinner diaphragm and larger magnet. All white or all black housing with a foam damper held on by a gray nut. Sounds very similar but grain is removed and it has better detail and soundstage. Best of the three but unfortunately is also the rarest.

 

Series 3:

 

 

 

All white with a smaller magnet and voice coil, and a felt damper. Worst sounding of all three. Used in some 4AAAs and all "Plus" models of KOSS headphones. Absolutely gross sounding. Here's a guide to avoid it:

 

 

 

The only reason I'm pressing the topic is because all variations of the drivers are tuned/sound the same minus the occasional product variance. ie, a series 2 4AAA should sound almost completely identical to a Reference One. The materials and drivers used are completely identical save for color variations. Even the earpads are made from the same material, and no type covers any more of the driver than another. Any differences should be quite miniscule and more related to fit than anything.

 


 

On-Topic: Revisted my Pioneer Monitor 10 yesterday. I wired up a new cable to them and tried them out. They immediately sounded less dark than the Monitor 10-II, which is now heavily modified and much less dark sounding than it used to be. Yes, the older headphone (by over TEN YEARS) is darker sounding. Fail. No, seriously. Fail, Pioneer. No wonder the 10-II bombed.

 

However, the Monitor 10 is by no means perfect. There were some linearity problems in the upper ranges and this bizarre "cloudiness" to the sound which I could not get over. The bass was also a tad lean sounding. I hadn't noticed this before so I figured my ears had gotten better... and I wasn't going to stand for it. So, I took off the stock pads and replaced them with a spare set of Monitor 10-II pads, which don't cover as much of the driver. That's it, that's the extent of what I changed, unless you count the cable.

 

Sorry for the poor photos, but as you can see I also converted these to dual-entry... this time with a Monoprice stereo instrument cable and using a much lazier method. Cheaper and imo nicer. I'm gonna try putting some wire guides on the cup, might look nice.

 

 

 

 

Holy crap. These already sound way better than even the heavily modded remake. Definitely a lot flatter and more neutral, and the new pads allow for a comparable amount of bass seal and subbass. I daresay it's also faster and cleaner throughout the majority of the FR, and the soundstage is much larger in width and depth; there's really no comparison in this regard, as has always been the case. They isolate much better too. It's almost insulting, how easy it was to get these to a completely different level than the 10-II, which I've been working on for months. 

 

The 10-II was never able to compare to the SS-100, and probably never will be. The original 10, however, is not quite so far behind after these mods. The SS-100 has a less meaty/full sound by comparison and the upper ranges appear to be a bit less neutral on the SS-100, with the SS-100 being slightly brighter and possibly a bit more peaky. However, the SS-100 remains more airy and detailed, and more realistic in the midrange as well as cleaner and clearer across the board in general. I have never heard a headphone render vocals with the same realism that the SS-100 can provide. The M10 is getting close though. The small cues are still there, but harder to discern. The smoothness is comparable to the SS-100, with maybe a slight advantage on the Sansuis' part, but the SS-100's low end is definitely cleaner and more coherent. This appears to be an inherent trait with the large driver Fostex planars: extremely clean, natural, stat-like bass that can still hit hard if challenged. 

 

At this point, the only thing the M10 manages to do better than the SS-100 is soundstage and <maybe> treble. The frequency responses are comparably flat, but the SS-100 remains far cleaner, faster, and more realistic sounding. Maybe if I can clean the bass up a bit on the Monitors, but for now they're not dethroning anything but the 10-II.

 

Nonetheless, it still amazes me how good some of the headphones I abandoned in the past really are. 


Edited by takato14 - 4/27/15 at 8:46pm
post #1470 of 1788
Quote:
Originally Posted by volly View Post


Taka-son, would you recommend any other Koss headphones from the vintage era or perhaps anything from this era?

oh wait, shoot, I didn't read this post correctly

 

there are plenty of non-koss 70's headphones worth messing with

 

Pioneer Monitor 10

Sansui SS-100

Fostex T50/NAD RP18

Fostex T30

Sony DR-Z5, DR-Z6, and DR-Z7

 

some other headphones can be recommended too, but only conditional on mods

 

Pioneer SE-500 (close the cups with tape from the inside and put a square of felt in)

Yamaha YH-1 (felt, paper, felt sandwich behind the driver)

Sansui SS-35 (remove the grilles in front of the driver and the supra earpads, use bigger/better circum pads (you <NEED> the outer pads to make this one sound good))

 

now that I think about it the KOSS ESP/10 is worth trying too, the ESP/6, ESP/7, and ESP/9 or 9B can be good as well but they need restoration before they can be used at all cuz there's some foam in them that completely disintegrates and ruins the internal components (the ESP/10 is not this way)

 

problem is it can be tricky to find stats that have the energizer included

 

definitely avoid any electrets except back-electrets like the Audio-Technica ATH-8/Signet TK33 and TK44, Toshiba HR-810, HR-910, HR-V7 and HR-V9

 

also keep an eye out for these exceptional cans from the 80s:

 

Pioneer monitor 10-II

Pioneer Master-1S and Master-1G

Sony MDR-D77 Eggo

Sennheiser HD430

 

I could go on like this forever but I think you get the point


Edited by takato14 - 4/27/15 at 9:22pm
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