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EMU 1212M or 0404 USB, or external DAC with MB's S/PDIF output? (maybe other soundcard!???)

post #1 of 22
4/13/09 at 4:14am
Thread Starter 
Here is the deal, I currently do not have a sound card, I am using P6T Deluxe on board sound, which is not very good. Now I am looking for a good sound card, which will mostly used for music, but I do play game and movie.

My budget is 350 +- a little.

My top two candidates have been EMU 1212M and 0404 USB, I had 1212M for about two and half year, but only used S/PDIF output for my digital amp, so never really used it as an analog source. It seems the newer 0404 USB is very popular here and I read good things about, but I also read in reviews the measurements are not as good as 1212M.

The other things to consider is PCI vs USB, I never liked USB much, but I heard 0404 USB works very well with low latency. As for noise environment in PC, I have a very good power supply, Antec SG 850W, and I am only loading it to 500W max, the mother board's power module also considered as some of the best by reviewers, so I think it shouldn't be too bad.

Software, I since used 1212M for two and half years I can get though it's complex interface fine, but I can't say I like it or dislike it. I read the 0404 USB has a much easier to use interface. Another thing is I use Bx8a now, which has vol knob at back, I think the hardware vol of 0404 USB will come handy.

I don't do recording at all, so these features are moot point for me.

Now I am not sure how good is my MB's S/PDIF out, like I said I have P6T deluxe with ad2000b chip, does it support ASIO? How is the digital out quality in general? If it's good I will also consider a external DAC, preferable come with a vol knob.

Also if you think other sound cards are better, please recommend them too.

Thanks a lot.
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post #2 of 22
4/13/09 at 8:34am
I didn't find the 1212m to be all it's touted to be. My advice given your situation is to go for a good external DAC (preferably one you can try out first). Don't be afraid of USB DACs, many sound great.
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post #3 of 22
4/13/09 at 4:19pm
I'm using the 1212m driving an NAD Preamplifier for my headphone amp, and really love it. Stock ASIO drivers work "out-of-the-box." Sounds very detailed.

I don't game much anymore so really can't vouch for that.

I actually like the patchmix software, but then I've done mixing on pro gear so the layout makes sense to me. I'm planning on using it when I try out EQ-ing my headphones.
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post #4 of 22
4/13/09 at 4:21pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaubertuba View Post
I'm using the 1212m driving an NAD Preamplifier for my headphone amp, and really love it. Stock ASIO drivers work "out-of-the-box." Sounds very detailed.

I don't game much anymore so really can't vouch for that.

I actually like the patchmix software, but then I've done mixing on pro gear so the layout makes sense to me. I'm planning on using it when I try out EQ-ing my headphones.
Does the software vol control works well? I never used it when I had it...
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post #5 of 22
4/14/09 at 5:51am
Thread Starter 
I am also looking at Asus's Essence STX, but I won't use it for headphone, still analog output seems worth it. Again, I read lots lots of posts but see very little about vol control, maybe someone used it can share some exp with volume control?

I am open to all suggestions!
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post #6 of 22
4/14/09 at 6:31am
I also heard the M-Audio Audiophile 2496 card is good for stereo music. Also has MIDI capabilities as well.
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post #7 of 22
4/14/09 at 2:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reader View Post
Does the software vol control works well? I never used it when I had it...
Yes, and in my setup I can still use my Hauppauge video card remote to adjust it. Or, you can put an insert into the input channels that bypass it altogether (ASIO Straight to output), if you'd rather control you're volume at the amp. I couldn't really hear a difference when I tried patching direct, though.
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post #8 of 22
4/16/09 at 2:47am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaubertuba View Post
Yes, and in my setup I can still use my Hauppauge video card remote to adjust it. Or, you can put an insert into the input channels that bypass it altogether (ASIO Straight to output), if you'd rather control you're volume at the amp. I couldn't really hear a difference when I tried patching direct, though.
Good to know it works, I use active speaker with vol on the back and no preamp, so software is the only way to go fi I get internal cards.
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post #9 of 22
4/16/09 at 12:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reader View Post
Here is the deal, I currently do not have a sound card, I am using P6T Deluxe on board sound, which is not very good. Now I am looking for a good sound card, which will mostly used for music, but I do play game and movie.

My budget is 350 +- a little.

My top two candidates have been EMU 1212M and 0404 USB, I had 1212M for about two and half year, but only used S/PDIF output for my digital amp, so never really used it as an analog source. It seems the newer 0404 USB is very popular here and I read good things about, but I also read in reviews the measurements are not as good as 1212M.

The other things to consider is PCI vs USB, I never liked USB much, but I heard 0404 USB works very well with low latency. As for noise environment in PC, I have a very good power supply, Antec SG 850W, and I am only loading it to 500W max, the mother board's power module also considered as some of the best by reviewers, so I think it shouldn't be too bad.

Software, I since used 1212M for two and half years I can get though it's complex interface fine, but I can't say I like it or dislike it. I read the 0404 USB has a much easier to use interface. Another thing is I use Bx8a now, which has vol knob at back, I think the hardware vol of 0404 USB will come handy.

I don't do recording at all, so these features are moot point for me.

Now I am not sure how good is my MB's S/PDIF out, like I said I have P6T deluxe with ad2000b chip, does it support ASIO? How is the digital out quality in general? If it's good I will also consider a external DAC, preferable come with a vol knob.

Also if you think other sound cards are better, please recommend them too.

Thanks a lot.

I have the 0404 USB. Works well; however its ASIO driver appears to be poorly designed. ASIO driver uses 20-30% of CPU in Deferred Procedure Calls (DPCs) on a Core2 Duo machine with 4 gigs of memory. Thus, running some very CPU-intensive applications while listening to music causes major distortion and eventual loss of sync.
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post #10 of 22
4/16/09 at 4:13pm
In terms of sound quality, IIRC the emu 1212M and the 0404 have the same DAC and output stages - the only thing differing is the number of outputs. If you don't need them, go with the 0404. You can save some money if you go with the PCI ver sion, which is identical to the USB version in terms of sound quality - for 100 dollars, getting what basically amounts to a transparent (if not fully transparent, 95% transparent) DAC in the 0404 PCI makes it hard to beat in terms of bang for buck. I personally compared it to the Benchmark DAC1 and found no discernible sound quality differences between the two of them - maybe some people can tell a difference, but I'm not convinced it's worth the extra hundreds of dollars for me.

One thing's definitely for sure - the 0404 USB and 0404 PCI are identical in terms of DAC output. I confirmed this with the manufacturer after noticing that the two measure exactly the same; as it turns out it uses the same exact DAC and output stage as the 1212M and 0404 PCI. The only reason to spend more would be for the headphone amplifier (which I'm not sure is worth the extra 100 dollars - you can buy an external headphone amp that rivals the 0404 USB's sound quality for around 50 dollars (Samson S-amp)) and the extra features, which you may or may not need.
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post #11 of 22
4/16/09 at 4:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by royalcrown View Post
If you don't need them, go with the 0404. You can save some money if you go with the PCI ver sion, which is identical to the USB version in terms of sound quality
Hmm as far as I know they have different D/A converters so the USB version must better
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post #12 of 22
4/17/09 at 7:04pm
.Sup: This is false - they both use the AK4396 DAC (confirmed on emu's website/my own card). Besides, just because they have different D/A converters doesn't mean the USB "must" sound better - you're not paying extra for sound quality with the 0404 USB over the PCI version, you're paying extra for the added features and, well, USB.
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post #13 of 22
4/17/09 at 7:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by royalcrown View Post
.Sup: This is false - they both use the AK4396 DAC (confirmed on emu's website/my own card). Besides, just because they have different D/A converters doesn't mean the USB "must" sound better - you're not paying extra for sound quality with the 0404 USB over the PCI version, you're paying extra for the added features and, well, USB.
if it does have a better DAC then you are paying extra for it as well-some might not need the extra functions just better sound quality

I honestly don't know where you have seen they have the same DAC:
*emu0404usb: A/D converter: AK5385A
*emu0404pci: A/D converter: PCM1804

http://www.emu.com
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post #14 of 22
4/17/09 at 9:27pm
1212M uses Cirrus Dac, CS4398. 0404 uses AKM.

@O/P: it depends what your chain is to be - what's the plan? Driving speakers? Head amp? Digital source?
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post #15 of 22
4/18/09 at 3:06am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1UP View Post
1212M uses Cirrus Dac, CS4398. 0404 uses AKM.

@O/P: it depends what your chain is to be - what's the plan? Driving speakers? Head amp? Digital source?
Output to m-audio bx8a directly, not preamp.
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