Head-Fi.org › Forums › Summit-Fi (High-End Audio) › High-end Audio Forum › Are Martin Logans underpowered by SET amps?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Are Martin Logans underpowered by SET amps?

post #1 of 30
4/10/09 at 12:33am
Thread Starter 
Hey all!

I was wondering if amping some Martin Logan electrostats with a 18W 300b amp would be good. Listening to some CLX at the FSI really reminded me about how much I loved every kind of MLs I have heard. And I wonder even more how the combination of MLs + 300b would sound. My god, for the mids lovers like me, that would be perfect! However, I am a bit anxious about how dynamics would be rendered. I would of course use them with a sub, but I am wondering if only 18w would make them sound muddled and congested.

Any info / experience appreciated!
Reply
post #2 of 30
4/10/09 at 2:02pm
CLX:

Sensitivity:
90 dB/2.83 volts/meter
Impedance:
6 ohms, 0.7 at 20kHz

I don't think that these would be a good match with 18w SET. I tried my WA5 running a 88dB - 8 ohm load... and the amp gave up really early... no good sound.

at 90dB you are getting closer... but I will be looking for a 96dB - 100+ when I get around to a speaker rig for my 300b amp.

Cheers,

BTW - I am a big Martin Logan speaker fan as well......
Reply
post #3 of 30
4/10/09 at 3:01pm
Thread Starter 

CLX

Well, I shouldn't use the CLX as a reference as I won't be able to afford them for a while.... I'm aiming more at their lower-end models : Aeon, Aerius, Clarity, Sequel or Quest maybe.
Reply
post #4 of 30
4/10/09 at 4:31pm
Understood... Take a look at their specs... but I think that they are probably pretty close to the same... maybe not the best match with the low powered, and not very Ohm frendly SET.

From Manual:

What size of an amplifier should I use with the Aerius?

We recommend an amplifier with 80 to 200 watts per
channel for most applications. The Aerius will perform
well with either a tube or transistorized amplifier, and will
reveal the sonic character of either type. However, it is
important that the amplifier be stable operating into
varying impedance loads: a stable amplifier will be able to
deliver twice its rated wattage into 4 Ohms and should
maintain or increase power into 2 Ohms.
Reply
post #5 of 30
4/10/09 at 5:13pm
You probably won't find a SET with enough power to drive electrostats unless you go for those exotic ones with radio transmitting tubes and B+ at ridiculous levels. I run Quads with a push-pull EL34 amp - it's not quite as magical as the 2A3 amp, but still plenty good.
Reply
post #6 of 30
4/10/09 at 7:11pm
I agree with what mikeymad and Uncle Eric said.
Electrostats are a difficult load to drive and probably won't do well well with a low power amp, especially if you like to listen loud and/or you're set up in a large room.

Quote:
Originally Posted by papomaster View Post
Any info / experience appreciated!
If you get a ML other than the CLS it will have a dynamic woofer.
I had my ML Aeriusi set up with a 35W push-pull tube amp driving the e'stat panels, a 120W SS amp driving the woofer and a 12" servo sub. The sound was glorious! (IMO) And loud too.
Reply
post #7 of 30
4/10/09 at 10:46pm
Martin Logans are amazing speakers. Perhaps you could try a tube pre amp into a good solid state for a nice tube sound. That may work.
Reply
post #8 of 30
4/10/09 at 11:44pm
That is a pretty good idea Spareribs.. (congrats on the 2000 posts)....

I read a review once.. can't seem to find it right now... about a 'step up amp' or a 'booster amp', from one of the major producers.. I can't even remember that ... dang...

But anyway it was a SS amp (mono) that you placed in-line with your flee power amp. So it would go from the SET amp to the SS amp to the Speakers. The SS amp was just there to boost the power to be able to get the Tube sound, but have enough power to push the low efficiency speakers. The review was pretty good, the booster amp was very neutral so most of the Tube sounds was there.

Cheers,
Reply
post #9 of 30
4/11/09 at 12:26am
I've used a tube dac off a disc player to a B & K 200 w amp. It does sound good but you sacrifice some micro detail compared to an SS dac.
Reply
post #10 of 30
4/11/09 at 3:26pm
Would the 50 wpc Stealh Monobloc using two KT88 tubes per side work?

Welcome to Mapletree Audio Design
Reply
post #11 of 30
4/11/09 at 7:12pm
I mean, it's possible if you really know what you're doing. But electrostatic speakers require a LOT of voltage (few thousand), which most of the tube amps can't supply reliably. If you aren't sure how to match everything carefully, I'd say stay away or get a professional to set up for you, as the current can be lethal.
Reply
post #12 of 30
4/12/09 at 10:26am
The type of amp is irrelevent as to the high voltage required for an electrostatic element. Most, if not all, have a way to boost the voltage from the amp. Usually a step-up transformer and an internal high voltage power supply for the bias voltage, which is usually on the order of thousands of volts. The current involved is so low that it is rarely, if ever, lethal. Besides, you shouldn't be sticking your hands (or any other parts of your body) inside any electronic devices unless you know what you are doing!
The real issue with e'stats is they can be a difficult load to drive. Since they are a 'capacitor' speaker the impedence can fall very low at higher frequencies, thus the need for a stable amp.
Reply
post #13 of 30
4/12/09 at 10:58am
That being the case an old Adcom GFA-555 may be what the doctor oredere. The GFA-555 was stable to 2 ohm loads and w/ a quick mod (as per the manufacturer) it could drive the Scintillia 1 ohm speakers.
Reply
post #14 of 30
4/12/09 at 10:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejmcgee View Post
The real issue with e'stats is they can be a difficult load to drive. Since they are a 'capacitor' speaker the impedence can fall very low at higher frequencies, thus the need for a stable amp.
Thanks for chiming in, ejmcgee. Yes, this is the pragmatic challenge of trying to mate tube amps with electrostatics. Because of the capacitive loading, the electrostatics' impedance will keep dropping as the frequency gets higher and higher. This is a serious challenge for most tube amps.
Reply
post #15 of 30
4/13/09 at 4:05pm
You may want to try asking your question here:

MartinLogan Club (MLC) - Powered by vBulletin
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: High-end Audio Forum
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Summit-Fi (High-End Audio) › High-end Audio Forum › Are Martin Logans underpowered by SET amps?