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The Beyerdynamic DT48 Arrives... - Page 266

post #3976 of 4059
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Choiral View Post
 

Wow, never have heard about it being dark:blink:

Dark meaning overall tonal balance. The DT48 has good treble extension, but it's shelved relative to the midrange. It's not a major coloration.

post #3977 of 4059
Quote:
Originally Posted by takato14 View Post
 

Dark meaning overall tonal balance. The DT48 has good treble extension, but it's shelved relative to the midrange. It's not a major coloration.


Thats OK with me. As long as the treble is there. I hope the praise for this HP is not overhyped, like in other threads. Comparing with the hi-end headphones, even electrostats - I feel a little bit skeptical about it, but who knows, maybe DT48 really is capable headphones.

At least, hype about Etymotic ER4 wasn't groundless. It's a matter of fact whether you can have synergy with it or not:normal_smile : 

post #3978 of 4059
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Choiral View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by takato14 View Post
 

Dark meaning overall tonal balance. The DT48 has good treble extension, but it's shelved relative to the midrange. It's not a major coloration.


Thats OK with me. As long as the treble is there. I hope the praise for this HP is not overhyped, like in other threads. Comparing with the hi-end headphones, even electrostats - I feel a little bit skeptical about it, but who knows, maybe DT48 really is capable headphones.

At least, hype about Etymotic ER4 wasn't groundless. It's a matter of fact whether you can have synergy with it or not:normal_smile : 

It's fine with me as well. I actually rather like my DT48S, and I'd use a lot more if it was more comfortable/didn't have a channel imbalance. What the DT48 manages is to sound extremely clean and tight -- much moreso than you'd expect given its age -- while also having absurd driver control and decent linearity and balance in the FR. It's a unique experience, but it is not without its flaws. They have a couple weird spots in the FR, as well as a considerable amount of grain. Furthermore, they seem to lack that tiny last bit of micro-resolving capabilities like I hear from my Sansui SS-100 and modded Toshiba HR-810. 

 

But definitely a good headphone and a very valuable piece of audio history that everyone should hear at least once.

post #3979 of 4059
Quote:
Originally Posted by takato14 View Post

Are you kidding me? The ER-4 absolutely slaughters the DT48 in linearity and clarity. The DT48 sounds dark and grainy by comparison. 

 



Dude, you cracked me up.
ER4 slaughters DT48? DT48 GRAINY? there is definitely something wrong with your DT48 system if it sounds grainy to you.
DT48 and ER4 are like the most similar sounding things I've ever heard. ER4S to me sounds basically like an in-ear DT48. Both are insanely clear, neutral and realistic sounding.
If anything, ER4S sounds slightly less clear.
post #3980 of 4059
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aizura View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by takato14 View Post

Are you kidding me? The ER-4 absolutely slaughters the DT48 in linearity and clarity. The DT48 sounds dark and grainy by comparison. 

 



Dude, you cracked me up.
ER4 slaughters DT48? DT48 GRAINY? there is definitely something wrong with your DT48 system if it sounds grainy to you.
DT48 and ER4 are like the most similar sounding things I've ever heard. ER4S to me sounds basically like an in-ear DT48. Both are insanely clear, neutral and realistic sounding.
If anything, ER4S sounds slightly less clear.
The ER-4 is definitely similar to the DT48(S) I have here, but the ER-4 is on a completely different level. The DT48 sounds notably darker and "crunchier" than the ER-4S and simply is not capable of the same level of resolution as the ER-4. The HD800 is the only thing I've heard that can out-detail the ER-4S. The ER-4 is also smoother and more linear in its frequency response.

Measurements support all of the claims I just made.

The DT48 is just about as clean/controlled as the ER-4, however. Again, not a bad headphone by any means, but easily outclassed by a lot of modern equipment.
post #3981 of 4059
Quote:
Originally Posted by takato14 View Post
but easily outclassed by a lot of modern equipment.

Among closed headphones which one outclasses DT48?:smile:

post #3982 of 4059
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Choiral View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by takato14 View Post

but easily outclassed by a lot of modern equipment.
Among closed headphones which one outclasses DT48?smile.gif
DT150, DT250, maybe LFF Paradox if limiting to modern headphones only (really not a lot of good closed headphones around today), if not, DR-Z7, Monitor 10-II, Monitor 10, maybe a modded YH-100
Edited by takato14 - 2/21/15 at 9:14am
post #3983 of 4059
Quote:
Originally Posted by takato14 View Post


The ER-4 is definitely similar to the DT48(S) I have here, but the ER-4 is on a completely different level. The DT48 sounds notably darker and "crunchier" than the ER-4S and simply is not capable of the same level of resolution as the ER-4. The HD800 is the only thing I've heard that can out-detail the ER-4S. The ER-4 is also smoother and more linear in its frequency response.

Measurements support all of the claims I just made.

The DT48 is just about as clean/controlled as the ER-4, however. Again, not a bad headphone by any means, but easily outclassed by a lot of modern equipment.


The only thing I can think of, it that your DAC/amp has terrible synergy with your DT48 (do you even own a DT48? You don't list it in your profile) I've used the ER4S daily for over 4 years, and have owned 3 pairs of HD800. The primary reason I love the DT48 is that it sounds similar to the HD800 and ER4S, but with isolation from outside noise without having to fiddle with the in-ear fit (I hate the hassle of putting ER4 in/out of my ears).

 

The fact that you are stating that a lot of "modern equipment" outclasses DT48 gives me the impression that you don't have much experience with the DT48, or audio in general. Sorry for being a bit harsh.

 

I find it pretty funny that the ER4 was the first in-ear headphone and the DT48 the first dynamic headphone and to me they both sound better than any in-ear and over-ear headphones I've heard. This to me "proves" that newer products don't necessarily sound better (in fact, often times newer products are worse sounding, which explains why there is so much demand for discontinued products like Sony R10, AKG K1000, etc.)

 

BTW, how does one measure resolution or smoothness of headphones? And could you provide a link to those measurements of the DT48 and ER4 so we all can see these big differences in linearity? (both have to be measured in exactly the same way ofcouse, or it's useless to compare the results.)

 

How would you define "control" of the driver? Since you say that DT48 is about as controlled as ER4, yet ER4 is on a completely different level? Doesn't better control of the driver by definition equals better resolution/detail?

post #3984 of 4059

I do have to add that the DT48S (and all other very old DT48 models) sound slightly darker than the newer models, and I agree that they sound a bit darker than the ER4. But the difference is small and the darker nature only makes them smoother and less grainy sounding than ER4 (not that ER4 is grainy ofc).


Edited by Aizura - 2/21/15 at 10:54am
post #3985 of 4059
I have a 60s DT48 S and DT48 A. I'm using an Objective2 + ODAC with the upgraded PSU. I prefer the S to the A by a substantial margin as it has more bass and sounds quite a lot cleaner.

Here's some measurements from Tyll Hertsens, all done on the exact same rig:

DT48 E 25 ohm: http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/BeyerdynamicDT48.pdf

HD800: http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserHD800.pdf

ER-4 (not accurate past 9kHz): http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/EtymoticER4PT.pdf

Detail is usually a function of presentation (not measurable), distortion, and impulse response/transient response. Both the ER-4 and HD800 are smoother and have much better impulse responses than the DT48 E. They also have lower overall distortion.

Headphones I've heard which are better than the DT48 include the Sennheiser HD800, Sansui SS-100*, AKG Q701, AKG K812, Sony MDR-605/MDR-F1, Sony DR-Z7*, Pioneer Monitor 10*, Pioneer Monitor 10-II*, and Toshiba HR-810*. Anything marked with an asterisk is vintage, so not modern, but still better than the DT48.

I would agree that the DT48, ER-4, and HD800 all share similar traits. But I'd take the latter two over the former at most times.

Cheers.
post #3986 of 4059

I guess one cannot argue with measurements (though I can't see how they were performed), but to me Tyll lost his credibility as soon as he said that Denon D2000 is a better headphone for field recording engineers than the DT48, lol.

 

My DT48S and DT48A sound the same to me when using the same pads (though they are both of similar age (+/- 45 years), maybe your DT48A is more recent)

I have noticed that the recent models have slightly bigger holes in front of the transducer, I suppose this explains why the older ones are slighty darker. EDIT: nm, just read your DT48A and DT48S are both from the sixties)

 

Anyway, I think it's safe to say that our ears are quite different ;)

Which is a good thing, because only because of variability in anatomy, humanity has been able to evolve (sort of).

 

I need to hear some of those vintage headphones you mentioned.


Edited by Aizura - 2/21/15 at 11:52am
post #3987 of 4059
I'm not sure the DT250 is better: I own and regularly use both a DT48E and a DT250/250, and find that the DT48 is streets ahead on midrange clarity, resolution and detail on the end of a variety of amps, solid-state, tube and hybrid.

For what it's worth, I have not found the DT48E to match particularly well with the O2 (which is also one of my go-to portable amps, albeit primarily for IEMs).
post #3988 of 4059
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJG888 View Post

I'm not sure the DT250 is better: I own and regularly use both a DT48E and a DT250/250, and find that the DT48 is streets ahead on midrange clarity, resolution and detail on the end of a variety of amps, solid-state, tube and hybrid.

For what it's worth, I have not found the DT48E to match particularly well with the O2 (which is also one of my go-to portable amps, albeit primarily for IEMs).

I'll try it with my Gustard H10 once it arrives, then. 

 

My O2 is a combo unit and thus tied to home use. However, I do want to build a portable rig off of the O2 and ODAC with my Open Pandora.

post #3989 of 4059

About month ago i modded my DT 48 E again.This time i wanted soundwaves more directional and reduce/remove reflections.I made 6 mm long papertubes for each hole on the grill.Bare parts of the aluminum grill were covered with blutack to absorb reflections.These two mod combined resulted in great increase in transparency.There is tons of new details,soundstage is now pin point accurate and i can "see"/hear into it.Best part is,that it ´s now so easy to hear how soundstage changes with each song.Midrange clarity is now amazing.Bass is in complete control,it just kicks.Sensitivity seems to be increased too.I usually need much less volume to hear clearly.All in all,DT 48 sounds now much more realistic.

post #3990 of 4059

Just in case anyone here is interested, I've just put up a classified for a relative of the DT48, Beyerdynamic DT480. Free to a good home.

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