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The Beyerdynamic DT48 Arrives... - Page 127

post #1891 of 3815

I would be careful of saying any dynamic headphone, especially one not well regarded as being on par or bettering the Lambda at anything.. It's safe to do it in this thread, but we have the 'stax mafia' that will tear you to shreds for making such comments. I seen how a few have torn down others on that OTHER headphone site. I can't even say the DT48 betters the SA5000 in detail without Andrew the troll flaming my post & putting words in my mouth.. & why the Major STAX thread is in the high end forum behooves mes.. You are telling people that ANY electro is on par with the HD800/K1000/R10/02 etc.. Try posting a DT48 or 900 thread in there.. In will be removed in seconds. I made a thread asking if all electro's are high end because they are in the high end forum. Guess what. It was closed within hrs.. It seems like members & mods play favorites with certain headphones.. Jpeg attacked me personally. The thread was Women from different cultures, yet he felt the need to tell me to get a life & stop playing with my DT48's & video games. I would expect more from a mod. That would be considered trolling. He has yet to apologize for his outrageous out burst. Totally un called for. I got flamed for comparing the DT48 to the K1000, & to some extent the HD800, yer, Erik, is quoted as saying..

 

As for comparison to the K-1000, the DT48 has a similar neutral timbre and excellent range. The DT48 is faster, more transparent and more resolving to me. I can pick out details I haven't noticed before.
Uncle Erik

 

&

 

The DT48 is simply real. It's hard to describe exactly, but there is something very special about the DT48. The neutrality and transparency completely win me over. One of the reasons I bought the HD-800 was because its transparency is much like the DT48.
Uncle Erik

 

But when I say things Like that I'm just a rabid fan boy that will say anything & have no credibility. I guess if you are in the in crowd you can say what you want without getting flamed for it. Erik should be respected. I respect him greatly.. But to discredit me when I make such 'outrageous' comments irks me to no end..

 

Ok. Rant over. Sorry. Just heed my warning. If you believe a headphone that is priced low, unknown, & tell others they can compete with the best expect to deal with the fire.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mobbaddict View Post

The soundstage is pretty good on the CD900ST given its size, it's not flat and 2D like a HD25. It's not very large but it's not narrow either, and it's actually quite deep and airy. I didn't expect something like that.

 

I agree with you KBI, and the CD900ST is not even marketed toward the professional market, it just comes in a generic white package. It was initially designed for Sony Music Japan and no one else.

Yet i don't want you to think that it's a giant killer, i compared it yesterday with my Lambda and i need to correct what i said. The Lambda is still quite more detailed, effortless and refined. The CD900ST still sounds like a regular dynamic headphone in comparison. And the tonal balance is not so different. The issue with the Lambda is that its soundstage is stretched out, so the mids are less upfront and exciting. In the end i still maintain that the CD900ST is more enjoyable for most of what i listen to because it has a better focused imaging and better bass impact. And it sounds very airy for a dynamic headphone.

I'm still getting the O2 soon, and i expect it to murder the CD900. The CD900 will be my semi-portable can.


Edited by kool bubba ice - 5/19/10 at 10:31pm
post #1892 of 3815

ok, thanks for the impressions fellas! anyway, narrow/exaggerated SS...this would need more explanations I think/feel.

I've owned a cd1k(same drivers as the cd3k) for almost 15 years now...exaggerated SS? most likely: http://www.headphonereviews.org/headphone/Sony/MDR-CD3000

 

The highlight of the CD3000 is most certainly its cavernous soundstage that separates instruments into their own locations better than all but only the very best headphones. The first time I heard these cans, I was mesmerized by the expansiveness and surrounding nature of the soundstage. The angled drivers undoubtedly help these cans project a frontal soundstage better than many competitors.

 

OK, so here we go! that's exactly how the headstage feels on the cd3k/cd1k, you're completely surrounded by sound on almost 300 degrees around your head, and the SS works on the 3 axis(when properly amplified)...is that "exaggerated"?  the cd3k was sold as studio reference phone AFAIK...why wouldn't it be a case of most of the other headphones having a "narrow" SS instead?

 right now I'm listening to "\Pulp Fiction\09 - Chuck Berry - You Never Can Tell.flac", I've got:
-the drums between 9/9H30 very clear and not mixed w/ anything else...they have a SS of their own
-Chuck's vocal between 12H30/1H, also very clear, w/ its own reverb
-the piano between 3H/4H, very reverbed, not mixed w/ any other instruments either
-between the drums and 12H, I've got some room reverb that increases the SS and gives some sort of "binaural" experience of being in a big room w/ the band before my eyes

now it's pretty clear that the cups are huge and quite(read "very") reverbed...some ppl prefer a more "in your face" sound w/ tiny cups and no SS depth whatsoever...but who's to judge what the original SS was like and what phones have a "narrow" or an "exaggerated" SS? to me the cd3k drivers are as exciting as can get, and w/ a very transparent source and proper amping...they almost give you a "binaural" experience on most everything

these phones are also most delightful to set a master reverb in a song mix or improve your mixing skills by playing around w/ ambiences/panoramics and so.
when I see the size of the cups on the DT48/CD900ST I'm afraid...very afraid chevalier%20de%20labarre.gif

I will try to put some denon d2k drivers in a cd850(same shell as the cd1k)...that should deliver I think! the d2k already has slightly angled drivers so its drivers were engineered to work as such, too bad the d2k cups are too small and full of rubber and foam...allowing the drivers to breathe should only increase the SS depth/width and force the bass to chill the hell down...the dx1k drivers are said to make wonders in that shell smoking.gif


Edited by leeperry - 5/20/10 at 3:47am
post #1893 of 3815

We already discussed that topic in this thread a few pages back... No matter how hard you try, you will almost never be able to emulate the original SS because of different recording/mastering techniques used (FF, DF, etc,,,,) in both recording and reproduction tools be it with headphones or speakers.

 

So in the end, all SS (be it narow or expansive and cavernous) are fake. Just pick the one that you enjoy most and is more coherent to you. Personnally, I give now more credit to proper imaging than just SS size, and both DT48 or CD900ST perform very good in this regard (DT48 still above though).

post #1894 of 3815
Quote:
Originally Posted by kool bubba ice View Post

I would be careful of saying any dynamic headphone, especially one not well regarded as being on par or bettering the Lambda at anything.. It's safe to do it in this thread, but we have the 'stax mafia' that will tear you to shreds for making such comments.


Haha don't worry i didn't receive any threats from the Stax mafia Anyway it would be very easy to discredit me by pointing my source out.

I just felt the need to correct my initial impressions because it would be wrong to say the CD900ST can compete with stats technically. It's probably far from the HD800 as well. But you know what, i don't really care. I'm addicted to speed & detail usually, but i don't even notice the downgrade here unless i compare them head to head. The CD900ST feels just so natural. Anyway many people on the Stax thread would agree that the Lambdas are far from perfect for tonal balance so i guess that's fine.

post #1895 of 3815
Originally Posted by shamu144 View Post

in the end, all SS (be it narow or expansive and cavernous) are fake.

humm, got any link to back up this statement please? movies are just astounding w/ a SS as wide and deep as the cd3k....some tiny cups cannot compete IMHO.

post #1896 of 3815

It wasn't Beyers or Sonys intent to have large cups or to produce a larger then life sound stage.. They are more of a 'tool' then anything else.. To me, a manufacture would have to purposely create a cavernous sound stage, since it's not natural for a regular headphone to have.. As I stated, headphones from 00 & up now want to sound like a stereo system instead of a headphone (one reason why the DT48 is hated) which are strictly right to left oriented, with little depth & width.. The DT48 is 73 yrs old, & Beyers has no intent on changing them to create a bigger SS.. They were made for certain applications as was the 900.. I will agree with you that a bigger SS is more ingulfing & imersive for movies & gaming, & I prefer it in those instances.. But these two headphones were never made for the audiophile market.. I can make the DT48 SS large, but it comes with major consequences.. The mid range tiny & distance.. I'm not sure there is 'proof,' that would satisfy it.. It just comes down to what you like.. You want a headphone that re creates a speaker type listening experience.. I'd recomend the MDR1 for this.. They lack the CD3000 PRAT but offer a very convincing 3D out of head experience 2nd only to the K1000 IMO.. Would I love to see a open DT48 or a DT48 with huge cups!! You bet.. I might get mine modded with giant wooden cups.

 

The DT48/900 were never meant to compete with the CD3000. & welcome to our thread Leeperry. Maybe you can convince us to get a CD3000. I have nothing but admiration for them.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post

humm, got any link to back up this statement please? movies are just astounding w/ a SS as wide and deep as the cd3k....some tiny cups cannot compete IMHO.


Edited by kool bubba ice - 5/20/10 at 3:51pm
post #1897 of 3815

Good. On a personal note, I like you, & thank you for your insightful contribution to our thread. If the 900 is more natural sounding then the DT48 I would be in for a wonderful surprise.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mobbaddict View Post


Haha don't worry i didn't receive any threats from the Stax mafia Anyway it would be very easy to discredit me by pointing my source out.

I just felt the need to correct my initial impressions because it would be wrong to say the CD900ST can compete with stats technically. It's probably far from the HD800 as well. But you know what, i don't really care. I'm addicted to speed & detail usually, but i don't even notice the downgrade here unless i compare them head to head. The CD900ST feels just so natural. Anyway many people on the Stax thread would agree that the Lambdas are far from perfect for tonal balance so i guess that's fine.


Edited by kool bubba ice - 5/20/10 at 3:55pm
post #1898 of 3815

I fully realize that a DT770/600Ω is far more transparent and uncompromising than a cd3k...every tiny bit of static/pop/crackle was literally exploding to my ears(I really have to look for them to notice them on the cd3k). I can't think of a better phone for studio monitoring to be perfectly honest, their 600Ω drivers just sound awefully clear and natural. To make it short the DT770/600Ω was making me hear noise, and the cd3k bs-free music.

 

I also fully agree that headphones are forced to use every psycho-acoustic trick in the book(inverted phase depending on the FR, and so)...like all those Ultrasone "S-Logic" systems, so indeed it boils down to whether you want a boring L/R SS w/ hardly any depth and a very narrow width...or if you want the whole "3D out of head experience" shebang, as there is no question that the stock SS on the cd3k is what all those "Dolby Virtual Headphones" are trying to achieve in vain(due to flat drivers and the associalted physiological matters, as you can't fool the brain to believe that the sound comes from the front or the very far sides w/o any angling towards the concha). But OK, I like the theory that all the headphones inherently have a fake SS, need to chew on this!


Edited by leeperry - 5/20/10 at 5:16pm
post #1899 of 3815

Well 73 something years, longest headphone production..the nagra equipment which setted the standards and have yet to see something else take that, plus facts backing you up.

post #1900 of 3815


True. As far as I know the DT48 is the only headphone that meets NAGRA's standards. Yes, you would think something better would have come a long.. Although the Sen 25 II is gaining ground due to their SQ, & portability.. The DT48 weigh at least 400 grams & are heavy & cumbersome IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lltfdaniel View Post

Well 73 something years, longest headphone production..the nagra equipment which setted the standards and have yet to see something else take that, plus facts backing you up.




Calling a headphone that is L/R heavy boring is a bit harsh.. Isn't it about the music? The HP1 is one of the greatest headphones ever made & doesn't have a large sound stage.. & I doubt many would call the RS1 boring. The CD3000 might be in a class by itself in terms of prat. I don't know. In 07 I seen a pair for 200 & past on it.. Now I feel silly about not buying it.. They must be good considering their resale value is still high.. While headphones like the W5000 that have a MSRP of 1,600 have trouble selling for over 500.00.. But Some feel they are overrated & not that great. I get that with my DT48, so I'm accustomed to it. We each want something different from our music. I do know that Kevin who owns the K1000/HD800/ & heard the R10, simply adores the CD3000, & says they are very detailed & really fun headphones..In his opinion they are mini R10's.. He likes them so much he wants a 2nd pair!

 

Hers some great news from Tyll from Headroom.

 

I'm working on an improved graphing server tool for the community here and want to measure a bunch of headphones that haven't been measured on the HeadRoom site.

 

In particular, I'd love to measure:

 

Sony R10

Audio Technica L3000

Sony Qualia

Grado RS1

Sony CD3000

Beyer DT48

 

and many others, of course.

 

I'd particularly like to measure some of the DIY modified cans.

 

If your cans are alread on HeadRoom's graph tool (here) I probably don't need to measure your cans.

 

If you do get you headphones measured I will provide a paper printout of your can's measurements at the show.

All measurements taken at CanJam will be available on PDFs on-line after the show in my measurement lab thread in Sound Science.

More information about this project is available there. 

 

Please feel free to let me know what headphones you think you might be interested in having measured in this thread.

 

Just over two weeks to go .... wooooot!

 

Hopefully he can measure the DT48 & CD3000.. I won't be attending, but Erik might.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post

I fully realize that a DT770/600Ω is far more transparent and uncompromising than a cd3k...every tiny bit of static/pop/crackle was literally exploding to my ears(I really have to look for them to notice them on the cd3k). I can't think of a better phone for studio monitoring to be perfectly honest, their 600Ω drivers just sound awefully clear and natural. To make it short the DT770/600Ω was making me hear noise, and the cd3k bs-free music.

 

I also fully agree that headphones are forced to use every psycho-acoustic trick in the book(inverted phase depending on the FR, and so)...like all those Ultrasone "S-Logic" systems, so indeed it boils down to whether you want a boring L/R SS w/ hardly any depth and a very narrow width...or if you want the whole "3D out of head experience" shebang, as there is no question that the stock SS on the cd3k is what all those "Dolby Virtual Headphones" are trying to achieve in vain(due to flat drivers and the associalted physiological matters, as you can't fool the brain to believe that the sound comes from the front or the very far sides w/o any angling towards the concha). But OK, I like the theory that all the headphones inherently have a fake SS, need to chew on this!


Edited by kool bubba ice - 5/21/10 at 1:23am
post #1901 of 3815

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool bubba ice View Post

I seen how a few have torn down others on that OTHER headphone site. I can't even say the DT48 betters the SA5000 in detail without Andrew the troll flaming my post & putting words in my mouth..the fire.

 


 

 

So much of me putting words into your mouth. \/
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kool bubba ice View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Audirephilos View Post
Ok......I've just found this thread, which is telling me of a true underrated gem from the 1950's. A HP that is used for studio monitoring and live field recording, that sounds magnificent for music listening as well. What I've gotten from these 13 pages is that this gem is a true High-end audio headphone, and it trumps many other expensive high-end phones, and that it belongs in the same class with the AKG-K1000. Now for my questions:
~You guys say this HP Shows a lot of detail with music, can it be safe to say that its detail matches the MDR-SA5000? (for those who own it)How will it compare to it?
~Some of you say that it is also flat, is it flat like the MDR-7506 or the MDR-V6? I only use these HPs for monitoring mixes and I don't enjoy them for listening to music.
~My next buys, thanks to Head-fi! would include an open HP at home and a closed one (that I can wear outside). For the open HP I am almost decided on the SA5000, because I like a lot of Electronic music, and I love details. On the Closed HP I was almost certain I wanted the Senn HD25-1s but now after reading this thread I don't know anymore. What do you guys think?
The DT48 has more detail, especially in the mid range.. & no treble emphasis like the SA5000. The detail even surpassed my balanced SA5000 DAC1 combo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DefectiveAudioComponent View Post
Did you try any vintage orthodynamic headphones? (hoping for a comparison, if you have....)
Yes! The Y1.. The Y1 is much smoother then my DT48, greater bass response & impact.. More depth.. & detail is also very good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mypasswordis View Post
The first statement makes no sense and the second is just plain wrong. You just said there's something wrong with clear, high res mids, and compared that to dominating bass and overly energetic treble. And you're also basically saying audiophiles and headphone companies don't know jack about headphones that sound flat.



If they sound weird (aka much different than other headphones), why wouldn't they have wow factor, whether it is good or bad? And if they sound weird initially, what makes you think they're right and "miles ahead" of other headphones after you've adjusted to them?
I'm talking about the a version. They are audio metric headphones. They are miles ahead.. Clarity, detail, neutrality, tonal balance, transparency, speed, coherentcy, accuracy.. If there's a better dynamic headphone in production today that can better the DT48a in those categories? I'd like to know.. The HD800 should be faster, but not sure about the other qualities.. It seems like you hate closed headphones

Edited by Andrew_WOT - 5/21/10 at 3:32am
post #1902 of 3815
Quote:
Originally Posted by kool bubba ice View Post

Good. On a personal note, I like you, & thank you for your insightful contribution to our thread. If the 900 is more natural sounding then the DT48 I would be in for a wonderful surprise.


Thank you KBI. Hope we can start a CD900ST appreciation thread someday

post #1903 of 3815


I posted this a few pages back  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/418746/the-beyerdynamic-dt48-arrives/1575#post_6445357, and there is a link to a very interesting article. Let us know your conclusions.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post

humm, got any link to back up this statement please? movies are just astounding w/ a SS as wide and deep as the cd3k....some tiny cups cannot compete IMHO.


Edited by shamu144 - 5/21/10 at 9:18am
post #1904 of 3815

KBI, I think you would be disappointed... The CD900ST is no match for the DT48 when it comes to faithfully and realistically reproduce sound of voices or instruments. I would definitely not call it more natural, but the opposite instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kool bubba ice View Post

Good. On a personal note, I like you, & thank you for your insightful contribution to our thread. If the 900 is more natural sounding then the DT48 I would be in for a wonderful surprise.
 


 
post #1905 of 3815

well, FR measurements are meaningless to me, due to the middle ear resonances...BTW, I just got the d2k, is that some sort of joke? the drivers are not angled enough, the vocals are dead boring, the bass is boomy as can be and not refined AT ALL.

 

I can fully understand why some ppl collect cans like a terminal disease:

 

imagebam    imagebam

 

the SS is barely X based, no Y-Z audible whatsoever:

http://www.knupps.net/xyz-coordinates.png

 

I listen to music to be thrilled and excited, a X SS doesn't do it for me...besides after 1H that d2k is crushing my ears

 

Originally Posted by shamu144 View Post

Reading this interesting article from Head-Acoustics and Binaural recordings
 

 

404 here


Edited by leeperry - 5/21/10 at 12:30pm
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