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Long awaited Smyth SVS Realiser NOW AVAILABLE FOR PURCHASE - Page 6

post #76 of 2687
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonboy403 View Post
It's not hype nor gimmick. The SVS is ridiculous. I had a hard time distingushing the headphone from the speakers when I tried it at Canjam. You really shouldn't bash it if you haven't tried it.
Of course it's a gimmick. It's an emulation, a DSP, it's not the real thing. That is most definitely a gimmick.

Now what I said wasn't bashing it. But for a gimmick like that as stated is some coding and possibly new hardware. So wait a few years, maybe JVC, Sony, Samsung who knows, maybe even Sennheiser will offer one once this SVS has been dissected at a far lower price.
post #77 of 2687
I am sure the pro people who are using this would find your description somewhat suspect. Yes, I mastered this million selling CD using this gimmick (instead of my 10k Genelec monitors). After all, recorded music is just a "gimmick" because it is just an emulation of the real event. You need to sell those 650's for pennies on the dollar.

I don't think gimmick is the proper use of the term really. And I think it is just fine for you to wait until they are giving this away-no problem for me.
post #78 of 2687
Quote:
Originally Posted by randyb View Post
I am sure the pro people who are using this would find your description somewhat suspect. Yes, I mastered this million selling CD using this gimmick (instead of my 10k Genelec monitors). After all, recorded music is just a "gimmick" because it is just an emulation of the real event. You need to sell those 650's for pennies on the dollar.

I don't think gimmick is the proper use of the term really. And I think it is just fine for you to wait until they are giving this away-no problem for me.
Really? You think someone is going to master their music with this when every CD I own has been mastered for 2 channel? Why wouldn't they master like they have been doing for decades with their 2-channel monitors? Idea of mastering is to make the music sound good for the greatest number of customers. I don't think anyone would master music for people with this SVS considering how few people will have an SVS or even a Stax for that matter.

And yes it's a gimmick. Supposed to simulate surround speakers. But it can't. The point of listening to my speakers to get that visceral feel of the sound. You can't get that from headphones no matter how much DSP and emulation you throw at it. It's a gimmick, a really really good one it seems.
post #79 of 2687
You are a funny guy. You can do two channels with this (or three etc. up to eight). Write Mark at AIX-he records in both stereo and surround.

I am not sure why you are posting other than just sort a "trolling around" Whatever, I am done responding to your posts-flail away.
post #80 of 2687
Quote:
Originally Posted by randyb View Post
You are a funny guy. You can do two channels with this (or three etc. up to eight). Write Mark at AIX-he records in both stereo and surround.

I am not sure why you are posting other than just sort a "trolling around" Whatever, I am done responding to your posts-flail away.
Why would I want to ask Mark? I don't listen to any of AIX Records stuff. ZERO. And looking at their catalogue, I don't want to either. So again, I don't see why all of a sudden my favorite trance artists will be mastering and producing their music with a SVS DSP, when they can add in all the DSP effect they want already without it.

What's more accurate in mastering. Hmm using the 2-Channel monitors for use by consumers who are using their 2-channel speakers/iPod buds. Or using an emulator...let me think about about this very hard now...

Also please tell me what CD you mastered that sold for millions. I want to hear it, just for curiosities sake, not to bash your mastering skills.

Also love all your 11 posts have been about DSP/emulations. Good stuff.
post #81 of 2687
I'm sure it's a cool effect that messes with the headstage so that it sounds like speakers, but as MBD said, speakers are more than just placement of sounds, they have power that can't be felt with headphones. I think that while this Smyth DSP is pretty advanced and sounds better than any other DSP, it's not natural. I definitely wouldn't pay $3000 for it, if it were a switch on my amp like the Meier crossfeed it'd be okay - I suppose if you're bored and rich you may as well buy one and screw around with it. It's a novelty and I bet with some headphones it ruins the qualities of them that people love. Would people use this with R10s, K1000s willingly?
post #82 of 2687
All I know is I really want it and I don't see how you couldn't invest $700 on a subwoofer or possibly transducers for keeping the volume low outside (Clark Synthesis - Products) to install for an extra $500 if you want the tactile feedback (you need a receiver anyway, so it can be connected out to these as well). I suppose that I'm a believer in gimmicks that save me money in return for vast amounts of quality as long as I can not tell the difference.

It seems much cheaper to use these with even an Omega and BHSE then to remodel a house to have a sound room and buy a top end speaker system (and I would place bets an Omega would easily keep pace with them in sound detail reproduction with a proper amp).
post #83 of 2687
Really Manaox? When you listen to speakers, the only visceral feel you get is the bass? Also isn't the idea of this is to have that sound of your speakers when you can't listen to your speakers. If you can listen to your subwoofers when this, then, why wouldn't you just listen to your speakers then?
post #84 of 2687
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blubliss View Post
dsperber, sorry I missed you at CanJam.
Actually, I was only there on Saturday afternoon. This being my first show I didn't know anybody and only wandered into exhibitors that I had some interest in... like Benchmark and Neko DAC, and the Ray Samuels room. Meeting Mark Waldrep was sort of random, since I spied a Realiser on his table as I walked by (along with a pre-release Oppo BDP-83 which one of his discs will be bundled with as provided demonstration material) and came back to introduce myself (as "serial #0001 purchaser') and talk.


Quote:
The brothers said I would have my unit in about 3 weeks.
On Monday they said they're almost ready with their second production batch, of 100 units.


Quote:
They brought an extra one over to my setup at CanJam and let me listen through my amp and Omega1. It was very cool, but the sound of their room at CanJam was too live and it came through clearly in my system. I can't wait to go over to the AIX place.
Yesterday I had an opportunity to really listen closely to the two different virtualizations I now have (Smyth room and AIX room) on the same content ("The Girlfriend Experience", a movie recorded from HDNet on DVR last week). I was specifically interested in trying various combinations of files, and the sound on this movie was absolutely A+++ superb and made for a wonderful test case.

Specifically, I had two separate SR-Omega headphone/amp files created at both the Smyth room and the AIX room and I was curious to see if there was any audible difference between the two when applied to the same room file. Turns out not (and not surprisingly as it should be, given what it's meant to define)! Turns out that the two separate calibrations based on the one headphone/amp were audibly identical when applied to the same room file. This was reassuring.

However what was ABSOLUTELY REMARKABLE was the dramatic difference in the two listening room environments (i.e. combined room+headphone/amp files) between the Smyth room and the AIX room. I mean just astonishing (with the AIX room result being a "wins by 20 lengths" champion).

Not to belittle the Smyth room, and maybe it was because the AIX calibration went through an averaging of 4 sweeps per speaker rather than the 1 sweep we used at the Smyth room back in April, or maybe it was because of the huge difference in room acoustics and equipment and speaker placement in place at the AIX room, but by A/B-comparison the Smyth room sounds boomy and distant whereas the AIX room sounds precise and intimate.

The whole AIX room tonal result was night and day different from the Smyth room tonal result, with the AIX environment being pure and accurate through the headphones (exactly as I recall the room sounding on Monday, as best as that can be recollected days later). No tonal irregularities... just smooth and clean from bass to treble. I mean it was like going to the Landmark Theater (in West LA) "living room" screening room, with its high-quality multi-channel sound in a very small intimate room producing a very very enjoyable multi-channel listening experience.

When I would then go to the Smyth room preset, by comparison it almost sounded echoey, boomy and "invented". A completely different tonal signature and "EQ curve" which is obviously the accurately captured result of the different speakers, electronics, room, baffles, and overall listening environment in their room. It's just true... by contrast the Smyth room cannot compare to the AIX room.

This HDNet movie (from Steven Soderbergh) really had fantastically detailed and up-close intimate sound. Just amazing. And listening through the AIX room preset I thought these people were right there in front of (or around) me. Through the Smyth room it was almost unpleasantly artificial.

As a second test program I also watched an episode of "Rescue Me" (from FX HD), again alternating between the two listening room presets. And again, it was night and day... with the Smyth room booming and the AIX room precisely gorgeous and intimate. People talking with natural full-tonal levels, and with no "hollowness" or "Dolby Headphone effect" or artificial skewed tonal emphasis. Even the multi-channel spatial cues (i.e. "surround 3D virtualization") were much more pronounced and realistic and clearly more enjoyable in the AIX room as compared to the Smyth room.

Bottom line: I AM THRILLED TO HAVE BEEN ABLE TO CAPTURE THE AIX ROOM!


Quote:
dsperber, are you in Los Angeles? If so, we should coordinate going to places to get new measurements. I already have one two channel room lined up and have another in mind.
Yes, I'm in Marina Del Rey.

And I would love to be able to do this same kind of thing again... elsewhere.

To be honest, however, I'm not sure I have yet developed an interest or fondness for listening to 2-channel CD audio sources through SVS. Quite frankly, I much prefer listening to the delicate detail of "pure 2-channel SR-Omega/SRM-T1S sound" possible by all-analog connections and no DSP effects.

In other words, if I use headphones for CD audio I want to be able to hear everything... precisely. That's why I would put the headphones on instead of listening through speakers. Two different experiences, each with its own unique enjoyment factors. Sure, listening Otis Redding's "White Christmas" through a zillion dollar 2-channel loudspeaker and Mac amp environment is going to be different to listening through a Ray Samuels A-10 headphone amp and SR-Omega or Orpheus headphones, but they both will make you cry from joy... just for different reasons, and rightly so.

In fact, I've taken to turning the Realiser to "standby" when I want to listen to 2-channel CD audio through my headphones. This facilitates "analog pass-through", permitting the headphone experience to be just as it should be, with no DSP. Now I may end up changing my mind if I can capture a fantastic 2-channel sound room and listening through that preset can really recreate that environment (speakers in front of me, instead of earphones on the sides of my head) and its unique enjoyment. I'm certainly willing to add such a 2-channel room to my "preset collection", if you can line one up. I'm in.
post #85 of 2687
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Garci View Post
Have you compared the sound of the AIX+Lambda preset to the AIX+Omega preset?
Actually, I did compare them... but incorrectly so. In other words, just to see if there was going to be any difference I pushed the AIX+Lambda preset button while still wearing my Omega headphones.

I did notice a very slight difference when A/B-ing between this and the AIX+Omega preset, but honestly it was not anything significant.

Perhaps any true difference would be much more revealed if I were to have listened through the actual Lambda Pro headphones. I suspect, though, that the difference would be more due to the two headphones themselves... as it should be. Anything listened to through the Omega should just sound better, although the Lambda Pro sound very good too.

I know, you're really asking if the SVS EQ processing can make lesser headphones sound [almost] as good as better headphones, or if not then how close are they?

Anyway, I will get back to this particular experiment and do it right this time. I'll then give my opinion.

Regardless, I'm still going to use my Omega 100% of the time along with the AIX room preset. The combination appears to accurately duplicate what the actual room and equipment sounded like... which was amazing.
post #86 of 2687
Is there a way you could have one profile or preset (whatever) for each room/speakers by themselves, another one for just the ears, one for each amp, and one for each headphone - and be able to combine them any way you needed?

It would be great to be able to pair up a room setting that I have never visited with my ears, amp and phones that were not used in the room at the time of the profile creation. I could bring my "ears" to your place and hear your room, speakers, amp and headphones without re-doing the whole thing. Or, I could bring the AIX room/speakers to my home and combine with my ears, amp and phones. Etc...
post #87 of 2687
Thread Starter 
There are two separate files that go into a personalization preset:

(1) room/ears

(2) headphone/amp/ears

These files are stored separately (30 of each kind possible in the non-volatile RAM of the box, and unlimited of each kind possible to be stored on the SD flash card) and any selected one of each type can be combined together to form a preset.

There is no way to separate just the "room", or just the "headphone/amp", or just your "ears".
post #88 of 2687
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbd2884 View Post
Really Manaox? When you listen to speakers, the only visceral feel you get is the bass? Also isn't the idea of this is to have that sound of your speakers when you can't listen to your speakers. If you can listen to your subwoofers when this, then, why wouldn't you just listen to your speakers then?
I rent (renting a house right now though, but moving soon) and no way am I getting a great listening room for a while. So, I guess my plan would be to steal a configuration from a nice speaker setup. I agree that bass is definitely not all you feel, but the transducers mounted on furniture on rubber mounts is the best thing you can do and still not be irritatingly loud to neighbors through the wall.
post #89 of 2687
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsperber View Post
Anyway, on Monday I went over to his studio to get my free personalization in his mixing room. All parties managed to work out the logistics and both Smyth brothers and Steve Cheung were also there to meet me (per Mark's request), along with Mark and his engineer Dominick.







I spent about three hours there, doing the calibration, listening to the results (including A/B comparison of my Preset 1 which is the Smyth sound room, and now Preset 2 which is the AIX mixing room, both of which use the SR-Omega headphone file), comparing headphone sound to loudspeaker sound, and listening to my "demo reference" 2-channel CD tracks.
I am so jealous right now. I have maybe another month or two to get all the money together just to purchase the gadget and now I gotta save for a trip to LA? Oy vey...
post #90 of 2687
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsperber View Post
There are two separate files that go into a personalization preset:

(1) room/ears

(2) headphone/amp/ears

These files are stored separately (30 of each kind possible in the non-volatile RAM of the box, and unlimited of each kind possible to be stored on the SD flash card) and any selected one of each type can be combined together to form a preset.

There is no way to separate just the "room", or just the "headphone/amp", or just your "ears".
So I could get my (1) room/ears done with someone else's gear (borrow or visit), and combine my (2) headphones/amp/ears with it, and discard my own room/ears portion to integrate their better room?

I am assuming that using someone else's room/ears or headphone/ears profile will sound wrong, but just how wrong will it sound?
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