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Long awaited Smyth SVS Realiser NOW AVAILABLE FOR PURCHASE - Page 168

post #2506 of 2688
hi All,

Yeap I’m a newbie, first post --- as such please excuse my stupidity. smily_headphones1.gif

I recently brought the A8, i had a 2.1 PRIR done for me in a recording studio - I hooked it up at home only to find i confused the heck out of myself....

Currently i have the below set up;

PS4 >>>>> HDMI >>>>>> (HDMI in) Realizer (HDMI out) >>> HDMI >>>> Denon AVR1912 >>>>> HDMI out >>>> TV

i also have my turntable through my realizer as below

Turntable >>RCA leads>>>>> Phono Amp >>>RCA leads>>>(line in channels 1,2) Realizer (Phones out) >>>>> Headphone amp >>>>> Hd800s

I then change between the 2 by using the mode->menu on the Smyth remote switching between line and HDMI input

This works great with my PS4 and Turntable using my existing 2.1 PRIR BUT...

My blu-ray player and sat. tv (all direct HDMI outputs to my Denon AVR) completely skip the A8 realizer, and, as my Denon AVR then drives my loud speakers i cant do any PRIR measurements on my 5.1 surround system at home.

I believe i have to position my Realizer so its after the Denon AVR so to speak but i don’t know how...
do I try ?

Blu ray, PS4, Sat tv >>>HDMI >>>>> (HDMI's in )Denon AVR1912 (HDMI out) >>>> (HDMI in) Realizer (Chanels out 1-8) >>>>> loud
Speakers

whilst HDMI out on the realizer goes into my TV that way I select the source on my Denon?

If so how do I fit 10 L/R speaker channels into 8 out channels from the realizer???

Again apologies for the seemly stupid question but i am very new to this.

thanks in advance
post #2507 of 2688
Thread Starter 

According to how I read the specs on your Denon AVR1912, I don't think this is a good match for the Realiser.  I don't see multi-channel analog input or output, and that's a fatal problem.

 

Normally one way to hook things up is to feed encoded multi-channel A/V from source devices to the AVR via HDMI/optical and let it do the decoding.  Discrete now decoded multi-channel analog outputs would hopefully be available at the "multi-channel analog preamp-outputs" of the AVR, but yours doesn't provide those 7.1 analog outputs.  So you have no way to feed multi-channel analog "preamp" output from the AVR into the 7.1 analog inputs of the Realiser which is the analog alternative to feeding decoded-to-LPCM discrete multi-channel digital into the HDMI input of the Realiser.

 

That's where the Realiser is normally configured for multi-channel analog, being fed via its 7.1 analog inputs... from the 7.1 analog preamp outputs of the AVR.  However your AVR doesn't appear to have multi-channel analog preamp audio outputs.  This is a fatal problem for multi-channel audio.

 

Now there are no AVR's that I know of which can decode and deliver discrete multi-channel LPCM audio out over HDMI (assuming the AVR had TWO HDMI outputs, so that one could video-only would go to the HDTV while the other decoded multi-channel LPCM audio-only could go to the Realiser) or alternatively you could feed the one HDMI output of the AVR THROUGH the Realiser and then out the Realiser to the HDTV.  Again, this is only theoretical, because no AVR does this.

 

But the Oppo BDP-93/103 players DO have two HDMI outputs, one for video-only and one for audio-only if you configure it that way.  And the Oppo's do decode to multi-channel LPCM out over HDMI. So this is the ideal way to feed player-provided multi-channel LPCM audio to the Realiser via HDMI, while also feeding video to the AVR and then on to the HDTV.  Furthermore the Oppo 103 has two external HDMI inputs (e.g. so that you can feed satellite/cable DVR's through the 103), so that these external HDMI multi-channel A/V sources can also have their audio decoded to LPCM for delivery out the audio-only HDMI output going to the Realiser.  In other words, using the 103 as your decoder-to-LPCM for all sources going through the 103, you can feed decoded-to-LPCM HDMI audio to the Realiser which is not connected to your AVR via 7.1 analog but instead is connected directly to the Oppo via LPCM HDMI.

 

But you don't have an Oppo.  And you don't have an AVR that has 7.1 analog inputs or outputs (though it's the lack of 7.1 outputs that is your real problem here in terms of being able to use the Realiser for more than 2-channel stereo).  But the lack of 7.1 analog inputs to the AVR also prevents creating your own PRIR to mimic your own home sound system, since there's no way to feed the discrete 7.1 channel analog signals sent out from the Realiser to the individual speakers of your sound system during the calibration process.  Again, a fatal problem.

 

Don't know what to say, except that AVR does seem to be an insurmountable obstacle to being able to use the Realiser as intended.


Edited by dsperber - 1/3/14 at 6:51am
post #2508 of 2688

There's no need to run your analog connections through the realiser. Just leave them at the receiver.

 

With regard to your phono going through the realiser, you'll need some sort of an RCA splitter to have one set go to the realiser and you should be all set.

post #2509 of 2688
Thanks. That explains a lot. Looks like I will be relying on other people and showrooms for my PRIRs.
post #2510 of 2688

5.1+ analog inputs are not required to make PRIRs, 2 channel input is enough which you have. Of course it's more of a hassle depending if you just measure your two main speakers only (and turn around 180deg to make virtual rears) or try to make a "real" setup which would require lots of RCA and maybe speaker cable moving..

 

Unless you have a super setup at home, you still might want to "rely" on other people anyway... ;-)

post #2511 of 2688
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsperber View Post

According to how I read the specs on your Denon AVR1912, I don't think this is a good match for the Realiser.  I don't see multi-channel analog input or output, and that's a fatal problem.

Normally one way to hook things up is to feed encoded multi-channel A/V from source devices to the AVR via HDMI/optical and let it do the decoding.  Discrete now decoded multi-channel analog outputs would hopefully be available at the "multi-channel analog preamp-outputs" of the AVR, but yours doesn't provide those 7.1 analog outputs.  So you have no way to feed multi-channel analog "preamp" output from the AVR into the 7.1 analog inputs of the Realiser which is the analog alternative to feeding decoded-to-LPCM discrete multi-channel digital into the HDMI input of the Realiser.

That's where the Realiser is normally configured for multi-channel analog, being fed via its 7.1 analog inputs... from the 7.1 analog preamp outputs of the AVR.  However your AVR doesn't appear to have multi-channel analog preamp audio outputs.  This is a fatal problem for multi-channel audio.

Now there are no AVR's that I know of which can decode and deliver discrete multi-channel LPCM audio out over HDMI (assuming the AVR had TWO HDMI outputs, so that one could video-only would go to the HDTV while the other decoded multi-channel LPCM audio-only could go to the Realiser) or alternatively you could feed the one HDMI output of the AVR THROUGH the Realiser and then out the Realiser to the HDTV.  Again, this is only theoretical, because no AVR does this.

But the Oppo BDP-93/103 players DO have two HDMI outputs, one for video-only and one for audio-only if you configure it that way.  And the Oppo's do decode to multi-channel LPCM out over HDMI. So this is the ideal way to feed player-provided multi-channel LPCM audio to the Realiser via HDMI, while also feeding video to the AVR and then on to the HDTV.  Furthermore the Oppo 103 has two external HDMI inputs (e.g. so that you can feed satellite/cable DVR's through the 103), so that these external HDMI multi-channel A/V sources can also have their audio decoded to LPCM for delivery out the audio-only HDMI output going to the Realiser.  In other words, using the 103 as your decoder-to-LPCM for all sources going through the 103, you can feed decoded-to-LPCM HDMI audio to the Realiser which is not connected to your AVR via 7.1 analog but instead is connected directly to the Oppo via LPCM HDMI.

But you don't have an Oppo.  And you don't have an AVR that has 7.1 analog inputs or outputs (though it's the lack of 7.1 outputs that is your real problem here in terms of being able to use the Realiser for more than 2-channel stereo).  But the lack of 7.1 analog inputs to the AVR also prevents creating your own PRIR to mimic your own home sound system, since there's no way to feed the discrete 7.1 channel analog signals sent out from the Realiser to the individual speakers of your sound system during the calibration process.  Again, a fatal problem.

Don't know what to say, except that AVR does seem to be an insurmountable obstacle to being able to use the Realiser as intended.


I looked at my denon blu-ray the BDP-2012ud and noticed it had multi Chanel outputs. I may try and see if i can leverage this to get the connections I need to do the PRIR. Should be doable right ?

Thanks again
post #2512 of 2688
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremyth View Post


I looked at my denon blu-ray the BDP-2012ud and noticed it had multi Chanel outputs. I may try and see if i can leverage this to get the connections I need to do the PRIR. Should be doable right ?

Thanks again

You need multi-channel analog inputs on your receiver to do a PRIR, not outputs.

 

The outputs on the Blu-Ray or any device don't help you. The Realiser can only output analog audio for the measurements.

post #2513 of 2688
Hey guys! I'm a noob as far as the Realizer is concerned and I've been trying to find out more about it. The reviews are absolutely stunning, but I'm unsure if I'm able to test it here in Singapore (read somewhere that I can and I'll research more).

I have never had the pleasure of a properly setup speaker system given my room has always been cluttered. 5.1 is a childhood dream which isn't realized. Pardon my pun.

My headfi setup is decent, and I'm planning to keep collecting. My friend keeps advising me to try the Realiser, saying it's "limitless".

I can't help but wonder though, if it was so perfect, why are headphones still being sold? Wouldn't it "kill all headphones"? Something doesn't add up to me, and I'm wondering what it is.

I currently use a Naim Dac V1, and a couple of higher end headphones from various manufacturers with an intent to collect more. (Because it's fun).

May I humbly ask:

Is the Realiser is better for individuals who want to watch movies off their headphones? Do u need an integrated amp for it? Is it less ideal for music?

Do you still need a DAC with the Realiser? What DAC does the Realiser have internally?

I assume you will need an Amp, and that the "flavor" of the amp will affect the sound?

Do all headphones work? Ie, with a reasonable top end HD700, would I be able to maximize it's potential?

Will colored headphones, like my ATH 3000ANVs affect sound quality after it's been "realised" - I've read the Beyer T1 is good with the Realiser perhaps because it's neutral?

Will any sub woofer work? I have a decent velodyne unit sitting around at home.

Why is it there are individuals who own a Realiser and still own loads of headphones? (That's likely going to be me someday).

Appreciate the input, I would love to learn more!
post #2514 of 2688

@Jon-LF- it's a no-brainer if your interest is watching movies.  Quite an experience with a hi end headphone system.

 

However I have primarily used it with 2 channel audio listening, and candidly it's pretty hard to go back to the imaging / headstage of a regular headphone setup after getting your brain used to or trained on the Realiser output. 

 

IMO to maximize quality you absolutely need to keep the Realiser in the digital domain.   This involves having a source with an HDMI output, a DAC after the Realiser with an optical input, and quality HDMI and optical cables pays off in spades.  My favorite pairing is with the BHSE and the Stax SR-009 headphones.  This setup is so transparent that you can start to parse the pro's and con's of the Realiser.  As mentioned, I prefer listening with it however expect a little loss in clarity from using the unit (and less flexibility when it comes to native high resolution playback above the Realiser's processing limits).  A/B'ing with a really good headphone setup will pretty quickly reveal the effects of the digital signal processing (and you compound this with additional D/A and A/D stages if you use the Realiser with analog inputs/ouputs, which categorically comes at a price).  So I'm a huge fan of the setup in terms of it's benefits as I far prefer the imaging of a speaker setup and I fatigue from the "in your head" impact of headphones after a while.  The Realiser experience is far more convincing and I think tricks the brain more effectively (at least mine!) that you're listening to a real performance versus a playback system. 

 

I haven't used other dynamic headphones with the realizer as I generally only listen to electrostatic, but I'm sure others can chime in here (and the thread contains some feedback on that as well).  IEM's are a possibility, but presumably one would have to do a careful manual adjustment with a single speaker in the measurement system to create appropriate adjustments for the impact from over the ear to in ear headphones b/c inserting mic's in the ear would clearly be tough.

 

Good luck and hope you can listen to it.

post #2515 of 2688

I agree with the above.  In addition, there are several reasons why the Realiser hasn't made phones go away.  First off, is the price tag of approximately $3000.  You can get some very good in-ear phones for $400 or so and external phones in the $1000 range.  If you haven't heard a good Realiser setup it's a big jump to fork over $3000 on trust that the experience will be worth it.  Second, in-ear phones have the portability factor which the Realiser does not.  Third, the Realiser requires a lot more setup time than a normal phone setup.  You have to find a way to make measurements in a very good room with great equipment to make it worthwhile.  Of course, if you already have a great room, you can do the measurements at home.  But then, why buy the Realiser if you already can have a superior listening experience without putting on a headset?  Finding a place that allows you to do the measurements in not a slam dunk.  Fortunately, I was able to measure some excellent listening rooms.  Most of the time now I listen to a measurement made at Robert Lee's Acoustic Zen listening room and his Crescendo speakers.  The setup is 5.1, as emulated by moving around the two mains in order to emulate the center and side speakers.  At $8K per speaker, the speakers alone would have cost me $40K.  And the rest of the gear was of high quality as well.  I listen mainly to 2.0 and 5.1 audio recordings.  I have an Oppo player and am not even using a preamp or amp.  I just run the HDMI from the Oppo into the Realiser.  So to answer your question about music vs. video, I can say that I am a huge fan of using the Realiser in this way.

 

Why did I buy a Realiser?  I have a terrible listening room now, and tried all sorts of acoustic treatments, even hiring a professional audio consultant to tune the system and room with limited results. Now I can listen to my heart's content in an emulation of a superior system in a first-rate listening room.  Heaven!

 

Still, I would prefer not having to wear a headset.  Maybe that is next.

post #2516 of 2688

I agree. The immersion and the clarity that the Realiser gives is second to none. I have a modest $15K speaker system and vastly prefer my headphone setup. Just add some tactile transducers and you'll have an experience that few will ever rival. The most important part is being able to take quality measurements. I went to AIX and it's incredible. Also, my wife and I both took measurements so we have the pleasure of being able to listen to two different "heads" at once. Priceless. 


Edited by GardenVariety - 1/13/14 at 9:02pm
post #2517 of 2688
Thread Starter 

I have NO multi-channel speaker system, which is why I paid my money to have a Realiser, Oppo 103 feeding decoded LPCM via HDMI, external optically-fed-from-Realiser DAC feeding Stax SR-009/SRM-007tII via XLR, and a phenomenal sounding PRIR measurement made at AIX.

 

Not being able to have the real loudspeaker system I would have wanted in my 3rd-floor condo, I would have paid anything to essentially duplicate the wonderful sound room at AIX through headphones while watching my Panny 65VT50 from my bed.  Doesn't disturb anyone else (and in particular my downstairs neighbors), and it's really the next best thing to actually having a true loudspeaker and sound system which would really be unaffordable for me.

 

That's why for me this setup is priceless... because I don't have any other way to have my own AIX sound room or its equivalent.

post #2518 of 2688

I wonder how well Realiser would work with these new tactile stuff like SubPac. :D You could hide that under your mattress..

post #2519 of 2688
Quote:
Originally Posted by hekeli View Post
 

I wonder how well Realiser would work with these new tactile stuff like SubPac. :D You could hide that under your mattress..

I've never seen that. I wonder how high the quality is. It does seem a bit cumbersome to have to put on a vest but might be worth it if the experience is that much better.

post #2520 of 2688
Quote:
Originally Posted by GardenVariety View Post
 

I've never seen that. I wonder how high the quality is. It does seem a bit cumbersome to have to put on a vest but might be worth it if the experience is that much better.

 

The vest is mobile version. The larger one goes normally on back of the chair. You can only find few reviews on the net, I think it was pretty limited kickstarter campaign in the beginning. But some bass music producers said it works surprisingly well and accurately so..

 

There's already some similar products/competitors around, haven't dig deeper into them yet.

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