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Long awaited Smyth SVS Realiser NOW AVAILABLE FOR PURCHASE - Page 163

post #2431 of 2713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwood View Post

 

Yes.  Since the IEM bypasses the outer parts of the ears, no HPEQ is needed.

Thank you for the response. Headphones don't go well together with my ears! I assume a neutral IEM would be preferable over an IEM with certain registers that are boosted?

post #2432 of 2713
Quote:
Originally Posted by uchihaitachi View Post

Is HPEQ the headphone cup compensation EQ? 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwood View Post

 

Yes.  Since the IEM bypasses the outer parts of the ears, no HPEQ is needed.

 

In my opinion, the HPEQ is actually EQ and the interaction of the sound with your ears (pinnae). It will try to EQ the headphone to be more flat as well as compensate for the interaction of the sound from the headphones with your outer ear.

 

But with IEMs or CIEMs, you can't measure them with the Realiser, so there is no way to do an HPEQ measurement. That doesn't mean it's not needed though.

 

Depending on the IEMs, or any headphones for that matter, if you are trying to replicate the measured sound of a speaker system, you must eliminate any coloration introduced by the IEM or headphones. Otherwise, the sound from the Realiser will not be accurate if the headphones or IEMs are introducing their own colorations. 

 

Sure, different headphones or IEMs are going to sound different no matter how well you EQ them, but the flatter the better. 

 

So, as you can see, the sound signature of an IEM or CIEM is very important since the Realiser cannot EQ the sound of the IEMs.

 

Suppose you have a V-shaped sounding IEM. Then you use the Realiser to measure say a pair of electrostatic panel speakers. If your IEM's sound signature adds extra bass and treble, the sound will not match what the Realiser measured.

 

I do listen to the Realiser with a pair of Heir 8.A CIEMs and they sound different from my Stax 407 setup. The Stax more accurately reproduce the original sound of the speakers, but that's mainly because the Realiser is setup with an HPEQ of my Stax. With the 8.A's the sound is very good too, but not as true to the original speaker system since the Realiser cannot compensate for the CIEM's sound signature. But the 8.A is much more portable and convenient for listening.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by uchihaitachi View Post

Thank you for the response. Headphones don't go well together with my ears! I assume a neutral IEM would be preferable over an IEM with certain registers that are boosted?

 

Yes, definitely. The more neutral, detailed IEM's the better. Also remember that a lot of the localization or "Realiser" effect relies on the subtlelties of the speakers and the room interactions, so the more detail and speed the better from your IEMs.

 

-Darin

post #2433 of 2713

Are there any IEMs that Smyth recommend?

post #2434 of 2713

Why couldn't you do a manual EQ routine with IEMs also? I guess it requires HPEQ file to start with, perhaps you could use some neutral one. Or maybe Smyth could provide a "zeroed" file?

post #2435 of 2713
Quote:
Originally Posted by uchihaitachi View Post

Are there any IEMs that Smyth recommend?

 

Not that I am aware of. They really only recommend Stax headphones. I think Stax do work best.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hekeli View Post

Why couldn't you do a manual EQ routine with IEMs also? I guess it requires HPEQ file to start with, perhaps you could use some neutral one. Or maybe Smyth could provide a "zeroed" file?

You are right, in theory it could be done, but you need an HPEQ to do the manual EQ to begin with. Also, I just don't trust my ears to be accurate enough to do a proper EQ.

 

Interesting about providing a "zeroed" HPEQ file. The manual EQ of IEMs might help a little.

post #2436 of 2713

I bought the realiser a month ago but haven't had the chance until today to measure my own PRIR. WOW! What a day and night night difference it is between someone else's PRIR and your own.

For those interested, I measured a sonus faber ellipsa. 

post #2437 of 2713
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maus View Post

I bought the realiser a month ago but haven't had the chance until today to measure my own PRIR. WOW! What a day and night night difference it is between someone else's PRIR and your own.

For those interested, I measured a sonus faber ellipsa. 

 

It's like trying to see through someone else's prescription eyeglasses, vs. going to the doctor and getting measured for your precise personal prescription.  There's really no comparison, and there's honestly no point in trying to "make do".

 

The Realiser needs to be used properly (to its intended maximum potential) in order to be enjoyed at its intended maximum potential.  And that means getting a personal PRIR measured, for your own ears.  Period.  Somebody else's PRIR is just not the right way to go.

post #2438 of 2713
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsperber View Post

It's like trying to see through someone else's prescription eyeglasses, vs. going to the doctor and getting measured for your precise personal prescription.  There's really no comparison, and there's honestly no point in trying to "make do".

The Realiser needs to be used properly (to its intended maximum potential) in order to be enjoyed at its intended maximum potential.  And that means getting a personal PRIR measured, for your own ears.  Period.  Somebody else's PRIR is just not the right way to go.

Unless that somebody else is your twin! tongue.gif
post #2439 of 2713

I am going to be listing and selling my first generation Symth soon.  I think I have 002 or 003 serial number.  Anyone interested, please send me a PM.

post #2440 of 2713

Guys, I'm somewhat confused about how to set up my upcoming Realiser correctly. I was planning on doing the following:

 

BluRay-Player  >  HDMI >  Realiser  >  HDMI  >  TV

                                          l

                                     Toslink

                                          l

                                      M-DAC

 

The BR-Player would in this case be used as a source for playing both Stereo, audio-only CDs as well as Video (BRs and DVDs) with multichannel audio.

Would this setup work as intended? I'm somewhat worried about the HDMI passthrough, as I don't have an AVR (just a stereo integrated amp) and my TV accepts only 2.0 audio. Would the Realiser still be able to accept mutlichannel audio? And if it does, does the optical output pass on the processed stereo signal from the realiser, or a "raw" multichannel signal?

post #2441 of 2713
Thread Starter 

I'm going to suspect that since your TV cannot accept multi-channel audio input but rather only accepts 2.0 channel input, that the HDMI pass-through from the Realiser will present a problem.

 

Another possible outcome is that the HDTV at the end of the pass-through HDMI path may tell the BluRay player that it can only accept 2.0 audio. And that could cause the player to deliver only 2.0 stereo to the Realiser, since that's all the end-device can accept.  Again, a problem obviously since you want multi-channel going from the player to the Realiser.

 

Without the HDTV connected the Realiser tells the BluRay player that it can accept multi-channel audio via HDMI, so the player will feed the Realiser proper multi-channel audio.  However the Realiser does nothing for the HDMI output except pass through whatever it receives.  But you're not using your TV for sound (hopefully), so this might not be an issue.

 

Also, I had a problem with the Realiser being incompatible with three different Oppo players (83, 93 and 103) so that it would not pass through audio/video at all.  It worked with other manufacturer BluRay players, but not with any Oppo.

 

So... you might consider a not-too-expensive AVR as one of your additional costs for the whole Realiser project.  I think you may find its A/V-switching capability to be much appreciated down the road.

 

I went with an Oppo BDP-103 (not cheap, but excellent) when I bought my HDMI-capable Realiser, primarily because it has TWO HDMI OUTPUTS and can run in "A/V Split" mode where video-only goes out HDMI-1 (where there is QDEO video processor circuitry for optimizing video) and audio-only goes out HDMI-2.

 

Also, the 103 has two external HDMI inputs (e.g. from DVR or other HDMI sources), and supports decoding to LPCM of the multi-channel audio from these external HDMI sources.  So output decoded LPCM audio goes via HDMI-2 to the Realiser's HDMI inputs from all your external HDMI input sources into the 103, as well as for playing BluRay movies on the 103.  Since no AVR decodes multi-channel to LPCM for feeding the Realiser's HDMI input, this use of the Oppo player to decode EVERYTHING to LPCM (both BluRay movies as well as external HDMI input sources) means you can then use the Realiser's HDMI input for everything you want to watch/listen, and never have to use the Realiser's analog inputs (e.g. the preamp outputs from an AVR, if you had to do multi-channel audio decoding in the AVR for delivery to the Realiser) .

 

The 103 puts out the decoded LPCM audio via HDMI-2 to the Realiser, while the video is sent out via HDMI-1 (either through an AVR and on to your HDTV, or directly to the HDTV if you have no AVR).

 

Another advantage of the 103 is that it has an "audio/video sync control" that allows for an adjustment of +/- 100ms between the audio output and video output, which may or may not ever be needed depending on your particular individual source/program/movie situation.  Default is at 0, but any given playback situation from any source/program/movie may require a temporary adjustment to overcome some "lip sync" symptom, and this control is invaluable.  Note that the Realiser has no such control, if the pass-through situation works but you see a lip-sync problem. Another advantage of having a player like the 103.


Edited by dsperber - 7/26/13 at 2:19pm
post #2442 of 2713
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Dude View Post
nd if it does, does the optical output pass on the processed stereo signal from the realiser, or a "raw" multichannel signal?

 

The optical output of the Realiser has nothing to do with the input to the Realiser, in terms of original multi-channel or stereo.

 

The optical output of the Realiser is simply the digital version of the analog headphone output of the "processed" SVS (virtual surround) feed to your headphones.  The TOSLINK connection to your DAC simply is to bypass the built-in DAC within the Realiser that feeds the analog headphone outputs.  Or, using the optical output you can have your own external DAC to feed analog to your headphones.

 

But either analog headphone output or digital headphone output, this is the result of the Realiser's processing, and is for feeding headphones so that you hear what the Realiser has done to recreate the sound room represented by the PRIR you're using at that moment.  It has nothing to do with the true original 2-channel or multi-channel input to the Realiser feeding HDMI or analog inputs to the Realiser to then receive SVS processing within the Realiser, which then feeds the heaphone output of the Realiser (analog or optical).

post #2443 of 2713
Two very helpful explenations, thanks dsperber!
post #2444 of 2713

Good news everyone!

 

I asked Mike if there is going to be a rack-mount version of this.

Quote:
Yes we're working on this at the moment, and will have something to show mid-Autumn.
Mike

While "rack-mount" is uncommon here on head-fi, this is for the sound engineer guys who want to listen to their mix on several sources to see how they translate.

post #2445 of 2713

Thanks so much dsperber! That's about what I had feared would happen. Well, that means I'll have to get a Receiver in the not too-distant future. As an intermediate solution I could possibly connect my TV by Component video, and the Realiser by HDMI. No worries, I don't use my TV for audio, that goes through a separate SPDIF connection to the M-DAC and from there to amp and speakers.

 

As for sources, the Oppo sounds like an interesting option, especially its ability to split Audio and Video to two outputs. I'll keep that in mind, although I was planning to replace my BR-Player with a Bluray capable HTPC... Well, first I'll try to set up the realiser as good as possible using what equpiment I already have, and then decide where to go in the future.

 

... And there I was, thinking that with the Realiser, there would be no need for further upgrades, aside from measing speaker systems... tongue.gif

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