Head-Fi.org › Forums › Summit-Fi (High-End Audio) › High-end Audio Forum › Long awaited Smyth SVS Realiser NOW AVAILABLE FOR PURCHASE
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Long awaited Smyth SVS Realiser NOW AVAILABLE FOR PURCHASE - Page 155

post #2311 of 2713
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthmatin View Post

is there any good compact media player that can play mkv files etc, with surround hdmi output for realiser a8 .

 

something like this http://www.amazon.co.uk/Noontec-A3-II-1080p-Player/dp/B005I6AQSC/ref=pd_sxp_f_pt

 

but i want better spec to use it with realiser a8.

 

theres one from dune hd compact series, im not whether it output 5.1/7.1 sound from mkv file. please update me.

 

http://www.asus.com/Multimedia/OPlay_TV_Pro this one from asus. not sure if these would give perfect surround output for realiser. please advise me.


Although there are many small media player devices out there, I have yet to find one that will decode surround audio to multi channel LPCM. This is basically due to licensing costs. If the devices don't have to decode Dolby and DTS, then they don't have to pay for those licenses. And since most people who want surround decoding are going to connect these media players to AV receivers, most people would never use the decoding in the media player anyway.

 

You will see in the specs of these media players that say they will output LPCM audio via HDMI, however, what they never say in the specs is that it's only a 2.0 channel mix-down. You will never get 5.1 or 7.1 LPCM out of the box due to licensing unless the specs specifically say so. (I;ve never seen one that does though.)

 

I actually own a WDTV Live and I know it won't do it. I know for a fact that the only DUNE devices that will do it are the Dune HD Max and Duo. (I have a Max and it works great.) All the other Dune devices will not do it. I also did the research on every popular media player out there, and could not find one. I don't even think the Popcorn Hour products do it either, but maybe their newer ones will. The Asus OPlay will not work either.

 

So, that's the difficulty of the Realiser for surround content. We have a unique need that is not worth it for the manufacturers to add to the cost of their device for such a small part of the customer base.

 

With that said, most higher end Blu-Ray players will decode surround audio to multi-channel LPCM.  But they are not as small as what I think you're looking for. For portability, there are some laptops that will output 5.1 or 7.1 via HDMI outputs. mine has HDMI, but will only output 2.0. I think newer MacBooks might output 7.1. I think that's what Struggles is using.

 

The Realiser isn't all that portable either anyway. I guess it is smaller than a typical Blu-Ray player.

 

-Darin

post #2312 of 2713

I see interest in calibrations at high end stores - a while ago I commented that there may be an ethics issue - the demo/display equipment is all at the dealer to be sold - one system to a customer - not for its "sound" to be sold separately to lots of customers

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcx View Post

they are businesses, just like studios money should motivate them - I bet if you buy a 007 or 009 Stax rig, high end DAC/player from them for list they would let you calibrate with your Realizer against a few showroom setups

 

$100-200/hr sounds reasonable depending on time of day, if you're not interfering with normal store traffic or causing too much work supervising/changing the setups

 

 

it does introduce a rather new IP/ethics issue - the loudspeaker/amp/processor manufacturer's never anticipated that store demo setup's "sound" could be effectively "duplicated", some products may be there "on spec", not actually owned by the store, even the store's purchased stock is at the dealer wholesale price which includes the presumption that the dealer is trying to sell the product, not generate revenue from a single system

 

I would guess any interaction/resulting mention of high end amps/speakers by a Realizer user is worth it for the word of mouth advertising vs the relatively few people using the Realizer representing even fewer "lost sales"

although you have to suspect arguments that rely on "relatively few" doing it vs the situation when "everyone" does

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnaud View Post

It's not very smart to block people from recording prirs at an audio store. If anything, you might come there again someday for shopping if you really like the virtualization you got from the store setup. Also, if it's for a fee and scheduled during week day when it's note like people are lining up for a listen, it's simply silly to refuse (else you feel this technology as seriously threatening future revenues).

 

Talking about store not wanting to spend time for something that's not going to lead to a sale, in this age if online purchases, I wonder the percentage of people going into these stores with the mind to actually buy from them.

 

Maybe the solution for svs is to directly partner with much more of these high end stores, I bet they could sell quite a bit as complement to a high end rig sale / maybe for people who can't afford the real thing just yet.

post #2313 of 2713
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcx View Post

I see interest in calibrations at high end stores - a while ago I commented that there may be an ethics issue - the demo/display equipment is all at the dealer to be sold - one system to a customer - not for its "sound" to be sold separately to lots of customers

 

Of course it's all there to be sold. But why not do both? One does not preclude the other. Why not make some extra money for the "rental" of your room to a person who is certainly not going to buy the speakers anyway? You haven't lost a sale and you can still sell them to anyone else. The stores see it as one or the other. If you're not there to buy $20,000 in gear, then you're not worth their time. Are the sales people really spending ALL their time talking to potential buyers?

 

Do business owners only do things that are directly related to making a sale? Sort of, but not directly. For example, sure the most direct time spent is with a customer who is in the market for say a pair of Wilson Alexandria's. Great!

 

But why would a stereo store let the local Hi-Fi club have their meeting at their store? Why would a business sponsor a little league team or donate to a fundraiser? Sure it's all geared towards generating more business, but indirectly.

 

It's pretty unlikely that when you walk onto a store, they will tell you, "Are you here to buy anything today? If not, please leave. We only have time to spend with people who are serious about buying something." Of course not. They are happy to have you come in to look around.

 

For example, one local stereo store is very open to letting me bring people in to do measurements on his listening system. He knows we are not there to buy those speakers. But after three sessions there, he has sold $6000 to $8000 worth of headphones, amps and DACs to the people I brought in. Those are sales he never would have had. Because of his willingness to accommodate us, he has several new customers that are spending money with him. That's a smart business person. Did us being there cause him to lose ANY sales? Not at all. Did we prevent him from selling his uber expensive speakers? No. BTW, for his business, he has to BUY all his demo gear. He owns it. It's not there on loan from the manufacturers to help sell their products. So he needs to make money on them to pay for them any way he can.

 

I could see an ethical issue of the manufacturer was supplying the demo gear for no cost to the store. But it still goes back to the main point about the fact that doing measurement sessions is not impacting their sales one bit. It may enhance their sales but certainly not hinder it. Is someone going to say, "Well, I could spend $200,000 on these speakers or I could buy a Realiser instead and own the sound for a lot less money." ? I doubt it. If you are thinking about spending $200,000 on speakers, you are not going to buy a Realiser instead. You might buy a Realiser and some headphones in addition to the speakers.

 

Anyway, yes there is always two sides to every story, but that's just my opinion. If I owned a store I would want as many people coming to my store as often as possible for whatever reason. I would want people to come and ask to watch a whole movie in my home theater demo room, etc. Or come listen to their favorite music in my store as often as they want. The more people are there, the more likely you are going to make a sale.

post #2314 of 2713

Darinf, just open a store already, I like your thinking! ;)

post #2315 of 2713

 

Quote:
is there any good compact media player that can play mkv files etc, with surround hdmi output for realiser a8 .

 

Darinf is right, the only player that decodes and outputs audio to multi channel LPCM are the highend Dunes (not the compact ones).

New is the Dune base 3d. They still have problems with DTS Master (not True HD), this should be fixed soon.

I bought the player some weeks ago. It is perfect (at least when DTSMa is fixed), it plays everything, topnotch picture quality, fast network connection.

 

-Michael

post #2316 of 2713
Before Smyth Research the high-end suppliers were still struggling to find more costumers willing to spend money on high end equipment.
 
Costumers that used to upgrade their hi-fi systems are getting older and the new generations may not be willing to spend such kind of money on audio equipment.
 
Few people from the new generations who would be interested in improving their audio equipment may choose the 3D personalized emulation instead. 
 
This mean high end suppliers may not have sales to achieve the break even. This is their major fear and that could explain why high end market is exceeding their regular prices (few costumers of old generations with high earnings and a lot of elasticity).
 
If Smyth Research were not a seen as "threat" to high-fi and high-end industry, there would be already several audio receivers with its technology licensed (Yamaha had a prototype and it was waived).
 
So Smyth Research (notice that it is not called “Smyth Production…”). after demoing its prototype to the audio industry, has to release a product by itself. 
 
In this scenario, I see that distributors fear the effects of growing "word of mouth" marketing. The best measurements lead to the best Realiser customer satisfaction.
 
Anyway, the Realiser A8 actual price tag is still aiming to professional market. 
 
If the mid-fi industry is still not willing to license their technology, there will be no other option to them except releasing a product similar to the prototype Yamaha had in mind with a lower price tag. But this also mean Smyth Research dealing with a huge production logistics.
 
I think Smyth Research always avoided confrontation with the high end audio equipment industry. They do not really aim at the high-end audio niche. 
With Realiser A8 they target the professional audio market, home theater and video game. 
 
But not always there are such clear limits between niches. The home theater market has a lot in common with the high-end audio, hence the distributors fear.
 
One argument Smyth Research used to claim is that some relevant part of high end costumers may find extended listening sessions wearing headphones a bit uncomfortable. 
 
Another argument is that audio may be appreciated in social gatherings (it seems true for home theater, although it does not seem the habit of audiophiles with sweet spots, silence, concentration etc.).
 
Anyway, I think the audio industry is still on the verge of two revolutionary audio technologies (compression and portability; 3D personalized sound field emulation). Those technologies are still shaking the market and distributors of audio equipment will remain in fear until things settle down and the future scenarios become more predictable.
 

Edited by jgazal - 3/3/13 at 6:16am
post #2317 of 2713

i wonder whether this http://www.ambery.com/2hddodtsdihd.html decode dts audio (hdmi output) from laptop/other media device to lpcm 5.1 /7.1 (hdmi). if yes, will it work with realiser?

 

please advise me.

post #2318 of 2713
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthmatin View Post

i wonder whether this http://www.ambery.com/2hddodtsdihd.html decode dts audio (hdmi output) from laptop/other media device to lpcm 5.1 /7.1 (hdmi). if yes, will it work with realiser?

 

please advise me.


The wording on that web page is very misleading.

 

It says:

 

 

Quote:
"LPCM Digital Audio Decoder 
This HDMI audio converter decodes the embedded LPCM digital audio from the HDMI output from PS3, Blue-ray, HD DVD player, HD cable box, DTV and so on into multi-channel surround sound in analog format for older non-HDMI home AV receiver, preamp or amplifier equipments.
"

I see what they're saying, but LPCM is already "decoded" from Dolby or DTS in the player. They are saying that the audio is extracted from the HDMI stream and then converted to analog.

 

From everything on the web page, I can not find anywhere that is says it decodes Dolby or DTS and converts it to LPCM. It's basically like all the other media players. No Dolby or DTS licenses for decoding, so it just passes it through via HDMI or optical output. It's basically an 8 channel DAC. But it doesn't do any "decoding".

 

If you look at their diagrams, it shows sending the Dolby or DTS through to HDMI or optical, it doesn't show LPCM output to HDMI or optical, only analog output.

 

It actually has the exact same functionality as a Realiser: It can only accept multi channel LPCM for processing and DAC conversion. It just passes through Dolby or DTS.

 

Keep looking though...

post #2319 of 2713
I'm thinking of getting an Oppo 103 as a source for my realiser...anyone have experience with this combo, especially for 5.1 SACDs?
post #2320 of 2713

thanks darinf,  probably i'll get one of these either dune hd max or oppo 103 for mkv (dts hd / dts truehd container) playback through usb. 

after reading reviews im considering oppo 103, though confused. i would be using it to play media sources mainly through usb with mkv dts hd 5.1 / 7.1 format.

i assume oppo 103 decodes mkv dts hd 5.1 / 7.1 container to lpcm 5.1 / 7.1 through hdmi out. 

 

please advice me. 

post #2321 of 2713
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthmatin View Post

thanks darinf,  probably i'll get one of these either dune hd max or oppo 103 for mkv (dts hd / dts truehd container) playback through usb. 

after reading reviews im considering oppo 103, though confused. i would be using it to play media sources mainly through usb with mkv dts hd 5.1 / 7.1 format.

i assume oppo 103 decodes mkv dts hd 5.1 / 7.1 container to lpcm 5.1 / 7.1 through hdmi out. 

 

please advice me. 


I don't have an Oppo player and have never owned one, so I can't say how well it works as a media player for media on USB hard drives or over a network streaming from a server.

 

However, if you are planning on playing mostly from files rather than disks, the new Oppo models all have Cinavia watermark detection. So any files you ripped from Cinavia encoded disks will not play properly. See this info on the Oppo: http://watershade.net/wmcclain/BDP-103-faq.html#does-the-player-implement-cinavia-watermark-detection.

 

Since Cinavia is embedded in the audio stream, it doesn't matter how the file is delivered or converted, it will not play. As far as I know, there is no work around. Not all disks have Cinavia though. You can search for a list of movies that have Cinavia.

 

Of course, you can play any disks no problem, just not ripped files.

 

The Dune HD Duo and Max are old enough that they do not have Cinavia implemented. Therefore you can play all ripped movie files.

 

All Blu-Ray players made in 2012 and later have to have Cinavia detection. The Dune HD Max is older than that. The previous Oppo models also do not have Cinavia detection again due to their age.

post #2322 of 2713

thanks again darinf :)


Edited by darthmatin - 3/4/13 at 4:15am
post #2323 of 2713
Quote:

The Dune HD Duo and Max are old enough that they do not have Cinavia implemented. Therefore you can play all ripped movie files.

 

All Blu-Ray players made in 2012 and later have to have Cinavia detection. The Dune HD Max is older than that. The previous Oppo models also do not have Cinavia detection again due to their age.

Regarding blue-ray players you are right. Mediaplayers like Dune dont have Cinavia, only new ones with an inbuilt blue-ray drive.

So on newer mediaplayers you can play your ripped files. The new Dune hd 3d plays all files, also 3d blue-ray isos. It decodes surround audio to multi-channel LPCM and puts it out via HDMI.

The difference to older mediaplayers is, that the older ones like the Dune max have full blu-ray menus, the newer one only blu-ray menu light.
 

post #2324 of 2713

I'm very interested in getting the Realiser, but would like to get some clarification from owners.  I have a PS Audio PerfectWave DAC and use its Bridge to stream (I don't use a traditional transport with digital/hdmi out.)  So does this mean that I have to use PerfectWave's Analog Out into Realiser's Analog In and then rely on the latter's DAC?  I'm sure the Realiser's internal DAC is fine, but I doubt it's comparable to the PWD.  I realize I can get something like an Oppo player to output using HDMI and then use the PerfectWave as the outboard DAC, but then I don't get to use the Bridge, which was the main reason for buying the PWD.

 

Surely some of you use computer-based network players?  Or maybe you're satisfied with Realiser's internal DAC?

 

Secondly, does the SVS processing in any way alter or inhibit the unique sonic characteristics of the head amp and headphones?  Does the Realiser convert the amp/phones characteristics to blend in with a particular PRIR, or does the PRIR use the amp/phones characteristics as-is and merely expands in space?  If the former, then what's the point of getting the most expensive head gear?  (sorry if I'm the 1000th person to ask this)  If the latter, then does it betray the sonic intentions of the amp/phones creator?


Edited by givemevinyl - 3/8/13 at 11:23am
post #2325 of 2713

Hi givemevinyl,

 

You are correct in your assumptions about the use of the PWD with the Realiser. There is no way to get digital into the Realiser from your PWD. You also can't use the Bridge to stream AND use the PWD as a DAC for the Realiser.

 

I think the PWD is best used as a DAC rather than a music streamer fro the Realiser. Yes, unfortunately you would not be using the Bridge, but you can still use the Bridge for your speaker system.

 

I have never used an outboard DAC for my Realiser so I can't comment on how much better a high end DAC can sound. But I am sure other people here will chime in on that aspect. I am pretty sure your PWD will sound better than the built-in DAC of the Realiser.

 

The point of the Realiser is to accurately reproduce the sound of the speakers. With that as the ultimate goal, any part of the system which changes that sound needs to be accounted for or factored out. That is why the Realiser does the headphone EQ. It is trying to eliminate any coloration from the headphones or amplifier or DAC for that matter. If it allowed the coloration of the headphones through, then it would change the sound of the virtual speakers. When you compared the sound of the Realiser output to the sound of the real speakers, they would sound different. So the Realiser measures the sound of the headphones and tries to EQ that out.

 

What's the point of getting high end headphones? Well, in theory, if the ONLY difference between headphones is frequency response curves, then yes, all headphones would sound the same on the Realiser. But due to driver technology and other factors, some headphones work better than others. I know one sound engineer and Realiser owner who thinks that any of the Stax headphones sound the same when used with the Realiser. Obviously, a $10 set of earbuds just can't reproduce the sound the same as a $5000 pair of Stax. But if you are talking about relatively similar capabilities of headphones, then maybe they will sound more alike when eq'ed by the Realiser.

 

Yes, it does "betray" the intentions of the amp/phones creator. But remember, that's the point. You are trying to recreate the sound of the speakers, not the headphones.

 

-Darin

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: High-end Audio Forum
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Summit-Fi (High-End Audio) › High-end Audio Forum › Long awaited Smyth SVS Realiser NOW AVAILABLE FOR PURCHASE