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Long awaited Smyth SVS Realiser NOW AVAILABLE FOR PURCHASE - Page 145

post #2161 of 2617
Thread Starter 
Quote:

Originally Posted by darinf View Post

 

Then you could go direct from you Blu-Ray to the Realiser via HDMI and compare the difference in sound quality.

 

 

Only if the BluRay player has TWO HDMI outputs could you send audio via HDMI directly to the Realiser's HDMI input, and also video via HDMI to the AVR and on to the HDTV from there.  And you can also connect the AVR's preamp-outputs (whose presence needs to be a prerequisite for the purchase of any AVR) would go to the analog inputs of the Realiser, for delivery of decoded discrete multi-channel analog to the Realiser for any other multi-channel A/V source you might have (e.g. DVR, DVHS, etc.).

 

The Realiser can accept BOTH (a) analog input and (b) HDMI input, using the MENU button on the remote to toggle the selected input for any particular use.

 

NOTE: the A-to-D converter in the Realiser's input path is excellent (as is the D-to-A converter in the Realiser's output path).  The audible difference when using direct digital LPCM input via HDMI vs. using discrete multi-channel analog input is very small.  Really minor.  Not dramatic and significant, as I believe many Realiser owners will confirm.  Nothing like the very dramatic improvement in "SVS pleasure" and sound quality observed when upgrading your headphone/amp from something like the entry-level Stax setup to something truly high-end.

 

==> don't get obsessed with hunting down an HDMI solution. You could have a tough time distinguishing the results from analog inputs in a blind A/B comparison (which is very easy to set up).


Edited by dsperber - 12/10/12 at 5:23am
post #2162 of 2617

I've had luck using the PS3 as a blu-ray player and an HDMI splitter from monoprice -- but it might be more that I just happen to have a TV that doesn't interfere with the HDMI handshake process.  

post #2163 of 2617

Unfortunatly my Denon 2322 has no analog multichanel out.

My thougt was: 1. connect the blurayplayer via hdmi to the realiser (and hdmi video througpass the realiser to the beamer - works with my setup).

2. connect the dune hd analog multichanel to the realiser and for video via hdmi to the avr.

It sounds a bit complicated, but I think I could programm my Harmony remote to automat the switching.

Up till now I only have the realiser and the avr. So I have to buy the dune and some cables.
 

post #2164 of 2617
Off topic, but does anyone know if the Harmony Remotes have the Realiser remote codes in their database?
post #2165 of 2617

Regarding connecting the realiser to multiple sources have anyone tried the new Oppo blu ray players BDP-103 and BDP-105 ability to take HDMI in? 

 

Can the 103/105 take HDMI in and process the audio to LPCM and send it out through HDMI? If not they still both have analog out so you could just use it as a processor. Mind you it would not add 7.1 to a 5.1 source but it would be simpler then having to "disconnect" speakers from an AVR.

 

I have a Denon 4311 and it has a preamp mode and act just like a processor, but you still have the subwoofers that need to be turned of.

 

The 105 also have optical in and apparently a pretty decent headphone amplifier. But I doubt it can do all of this at once…

 

post #2166 of 2617
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackhamm View Post

Off topic, but does anyone know if the Harmony Remotes have the Realiser remote codes in their database?

 

The Realiser remote is extremely non-standard, with virtually all of the buttons having a very special and unique purpose that has nothing at all to do with what most remotes are concerned with.  You could probably come up with a mapping, but would you remember it without a printed cheat-sheet (which you can't see in the dark)??

 

I'd much rather just use the Realiser's remote (with its properly engraved keycaps, and with buttons in locations that I now have muscle-memory trained for) than even consider using some other remote with dozens of arbitrary buttons programmed to be usable for the Realiser... just so you can say you can do it.  I challenge you to be able to remember which of the Harmony buttons would correspond to the easy-to-see and easy-to-read Realiser remote buttons with the user-friendly legend printed onto the key or remote surface.

 

Using the real Realiser remote isn't an issue for me, anyway.

post #2167 of 2617
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mirohh View Post

Unfortunatly my Denon 2322 has no analog multichanel out.

My thougt was: 1. connect the blurayplayer via hdmi to the realiser (and hdmi video througpass the realiser to the beamer - works with my setup).

 

 

There is known potential incompatibility with the Realiser's HDMI pass-through for video-out to a downstream display, with specific source devices.

 

I know for fact that both my Oppo BDP-83 and BDP-93 players would not send video to the Realiser via HDMI for pass-through to an HDTV connected to the Realiser's HDMI output.  Both players were tried, and three different HDTV's were tried.  In all cases the screen on the HDTV was black, which suggests that the source device Oppo BluRay player was inhibiting output of video.

 

In contrast, when a simple Samsung BluRay player was substituted for the Oppo and the same HDMI pass-through was attempted, video was obtained on all three HDTV's when fed from the Realiser's HDMI output.  The only difference was the source player, so one has to assume the Oppo players were unhappy with the HDMI handshake from the Realiser with respect to video... even through it has no problem delivering decoded LPCM audio to the Realiser over that same HDMI cable.

 

So... just an FYI.

post #2168 of 2617
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackhamm View Post

Off topic, but does anyone know if the Harmony Remotes have the Realiser remote codes in their database?


I have used an L5 IR Remote with my iPad to program a Realiser remote. I even programmed in all the letters to make it easier to name my measurements.

 

700

 

700

 

If you have an L5 Remote, you can download my preset from the L5 servers. Just search for "Realiser".

post #2169 of 2617
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsperber View Post

 

There is known potential incompatibility with the Realiser's HDMI pass-through for video-out to a downstream display, with specific source devices.

 

I know for fact that both my Oppo BDP-83 and BDP-93 players would not send video to the Realiser via HDMI for pass-through to an HDTV connected to the Realiser's HDMI output.  Both players were tried, and three different HDTV's were tried.  In all cases the screen on the HDTV was black, which suggests that the source device Oppo BluRay player was inhibiting output of video.

 

In contrast, when a simple Samsung BluRay player was substituted for the Oppo and the same HDMI pass-through was attempted, video was obtained on all three HDTV's when fed from the Realiser's HDMI output.  The only difference was the source player, so one has to assume the Oppo players were unhappy with the HDMI handshake from the Realiser with respect to video... even through it has no problem delivering decoded LPCM audio to the Realiser over that same HDMI cable.

 

So... just an FYI.


With a Panasonic 220, Samsung E6500, and Dune HD Max, I can pass their HDMI outputs through the Realiser to my Sharp or Coby LCD TV via HDMI wihtout any problems. FYI

post #2170 of 2617
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmac View Post

Regarding connecting the realiser to multiple sources have anyone tried the new Oppo blu ray players BDP-103 and BDP-105 ability to take HDMI in? 

 

Can the 103/105 take HDMI in and process the audio to LPCM and send it out through HDMI? If not they still both have analog out so you could just use it as a processor. Mind you it would not add 7.1 to a 5.1 source but it would be simpler then having to "disconnect" speakers from an AVR.

 

I have a Denon 4311 and it has a preamp mode and act just like a processor, but you still have the subwoofers that need to be turned of.

 

The 105 also have optical in and apparently a pretty decent headphone amplifier. But I doubt it can do all of this at once…

 

The Oppo 105 has two HDMI outputs, and I think the 103 also has two HDMI outputs also. So imo you are better off using the main HDMI output for video only (connect to display) and the sub HDMI for audio (turn off secondary ch) LPCM (connect to Realiser) HDMI input.. 

I bypass the Realiser's DAC there by keeping my audio signal digital LPCM and use a glass Supernova 6 optical (1/2 meter) to my W4S dac (for digital to analog conversion) and then use a pair of Eclipse 6 XLR balanced cables (1M) to my balanced XLR input ports of my SRM-727/SR-009 combo. 

That's how I do it on my Oppo BDP 95, if I would get a new Oppo BD player I would get the 103 because by sending out LPCM (digital signal) there is no need for Oppo's DAC's.

 

ss 

post #2171 of 2617

Instead of fiddling with a HDMI-switch I ordered a new avr, -a Harman Kardon 260. Its quite cheap at Amazon in Germany. Its a new 2010 model and has multichanel pre-outs. No newer avr has those anymore, -perhaps anti-piracy?

With the Harman I can connect the realiser analog, -that should be sufficient for film-watching. The first years the realiser also was only analog, -nobody complained.


Edited by mirohh - 12/11/12 at 8:54am
post #2172 of 2617
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

The Oppo 105 has two HDMI outputs, and I think the 103 also has two HDMI outputs also. So imo you are better off using the main HDMI output for video only (connect to display) and the sub HDMI for audio (turn off secondary ch) LPCM (connect to Realiser) HDMI input.. 

I bypass the Realiser's DAC there by keeping my audio signal digital LPCM and use a glass Supernova 6 optical (1/2 meter) to my W4S dac (for digital to analog conversion) and then use a pair of Eclipse 6 XLR balanced cables (1M) to my balanced XLR input ports of my SRM-727/SR-009 combo. 

That's how I do it on my Oppo BDP 95, if I would get a new Oppo BD player I would get the 103 because by sending out LPCM (digital signal) there is no need for Oppo's DAC's.

 

ss 

 

Sillysally, I think you misunderstood me slightly. Since the discussion have been about a simple way of using a multitude of sources with the realiser I just thought of using Oppos new models with there HDMI INPUT capability.

 

I emailed Oppo and this is there reply:

"The BDP-103/105 will accept standard resolution Dolby Digital and DTS and convert it to PCM, but it can't support Dolby Digital TrueHD or DTS-HD Master. This is a limitation of the chipset."

 

Thats a shame since this would have been a simple solution for Smyth raliser users.

Again it could still be useful to convert other sources to analog multichannel and send that to the realiser instead of using an AVR.

 

http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-105/

post #2173 of 2617
Thread Starter 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmac View Post

 

I emailed Oppo and this is there reply:

"The BDP-103/105 will accept standard resolution Dolby Digital and DTS and convert it to PCM, but it can't support Dolby Digital TrueHD or DTS-HD Master. This is a limitation of the chipset."

 

Thats a shame since this would have been a simple solution for Smyth raliser users.

Again it could still be useful to convert other sources to analog multichannel and send that to the realiser instead of using an AVR.

 

http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-105/

 

Why is this a shame?  The only source providing DD-TrueHD or DTH-HSMA are BluRay discs themselves.  So the BDP-103/105 is the source device player for these and it delivers decoded LPCM out over HDMI to the Realiser's HDMI input.  So for BluRay discs, it works as we want.

 

And for other non-BDMV source (e.g. DVR from HDTV programs), we've been asking for an AVR that could decode DD5.1 and deliver discrete LPCM over HDMI, but none do.  So here the BDP-103/105 will function as THAT SOUGHT-AFTER AVR, which can accept DD5.1 input and once again deliver decoded discrete LPCM over HDMI to the Realiser.

 

So there' no need to feed the Realiser's analog input for either (a) BDMV discs, or (b) external DD5.1 devices like a DVR which can now use the BDP-103/105 as the decoder->LPCM via HDMI.  Sounds like Nirvana.

 

But I'm puzzled about the letter you got back from Oppo.  According to the specs there is mention of "the BDP-103/105 can decode anything to analog".  I don't see any mention of decoding anything of an external input (either HDMI or optical/coax) to LPCM and putting it out over HDMI.  Is that in some more detailed documentation somewhere?  It would be pointless to route the DVR's DD5.1 output (HDMI or optical) through the BDP-103/105's external input just to once again get analog audio output as we already get that from an AVR.

 

Is there some place where it specifically describes the feature of delivering decoded discrete LPCM output from external source inputs like a DVR, for HDMI and/or optical?  Certainly not on that page you cited.

post #2174 of 2617
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsperber View Post

 

Why is this a shame?  The only source providing DD-TrueHD or DTH-HSMA are BluRay discs themselves.  So the BDP-103/105 is the source device player for these and it delivers decoded LPCM out over HDMI to the Realiser's HDMI input.  So for BluRay discs, it works as we want.

 

And for other non-BDMV source (e.g. DVR from HDTV programs), we've been asking for an AVR that could decode DD5.1 and deliver discrete LPCM over HDMI, but none do.  So here the BDP-103/105 will function as THAT SOUGHT-AFTER AVR, which can accept DD5.1 input and once again deliver decoded discrete LPCM over HDMI to the Realiser.

 

So there' no need to feed the Realiser's analog input for either (a) BDMV discs, or (b) external DD5.1 devices like a DVR which can now use the BDP-103/105 as the decoder->LPCM via HDMI.  Sounds like Nirvana.

 

But I'm puzzled about the letter you got back from Oppo.  According to the specs there is mention of "the BDP-103/105 can decode anything to analog".  I don't see any mention of decoding anything of an external input (either HDMI or optical/coax) to LPCM and putting it out over HDMI.  Is that in some more detailed documentation somewhere?  It would be pointless to route the DVR's DD5.1 output (HDMI or optical) through the BDP-103/105's external input just to once again get analog audio output as we already get that from an AVR.

 

Is there some place where it specifically describes the feature of delivering decoded discrete LPCM output from external source inputs like a DVR, for HDMI and/or optical?  Certainly not on that page you cited.

dsperber your right, that's not such a bad thing. It just would have been nice if it had all the HD format conversion for future HTPC solutions...

 

But this is a wonderful solution for this old problem!

 

 

As to how truthful this is I don't know. I just emailed Oppo and asked if it can "transcode" bitstream signals from HDMI in, to LPCM on HDMI out, and the quote was the response. Anyone who has the 103/105 can confirm this would be much appreciated.

 

 

post #2175 of 2617
Thread Starter 

I took a look at the BDP-105 owner's manual, and mention of optical input is for this model... not for the BDP-103 which does not have optical input.

 

But both models do have dual-HDMI input (one on the front and one on the back).  And it is apparent from the manuals that the digital audio/video input from these external HDMI inputs are processed by the audio/video circuitry inside the players exactly the same way they would deal with digital audio/video coming from a BluRay disc itself.

 

So... I am now of the opinion that these BDP-103/105 boxes can actually be used to finally solve the problem of currently only being able to feed decoded discrete multi-channel LPCM to the Realiser's HDMI input for BluRay discs.  It would appear that these Oppo players are what we've been asking for, for quite a while now: namely an AVR (or AVR-like device, other than a BluRay player) which could decode DD5.1 and deliver LPCM over HDMI to the Realiser.

 

In fact, if say the HDMI output from a DVR were routed to the HDMI input of the Oppo instead of going to the AVR as it usually does, then the digital DD5.1 audio from the DVR source would be decoded by the Oppo, converted to LPCM, and delivered out over its HDMI-2 which goes to the Realiser's HDMI input... same as for any audio coming from a BluRay disc.

 

And the digital video from the DVR source would be processed/passed by the Oppo, and delivered out over its HDMI-1 which already goes to one of your AVR's HDMI inputs for BluRay disc playback... same as for any video coming from a BluRay disc.

 

This would free up the HDMI input to your AVR which previously accepted the HDMI output from the DVR, which instead now goes to the HDMI input of the Oppo.  And the preamp-out analog outputs from the AVR could still connect to the Realiser's analog inputs for other source devices going into the AVR... although they would no longer be utilized for the DVR source since DVR audio is now routing via HDMI through the Oppo and out HDMI-2 to the Realiser's HDMI input.

 

 

Note that these new Oppo players no longer have component video outputs. But they still do retain multi-channel and 2-channel stereo analog audio output if you want to make use of it.  But they also have Cinavia circuitry (advanced anti-piracy watermarking), so just be aware of that.

 

Nevertheless, the HDMI inputs to these Oppo players seems to be the solution we've been looking for, to extend HDMI input to the Realiser to other source devices other than just a BluRay player.

 

Great news!

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