Long awaited Smyth SVS Realiser NOW AVAILABLE FOR PURCHASE - Page 142

Apparently the DTS 6.1 standard was set such that speaker placement was pretty much the same as 5.1, but with an added center surround channel, one speaker directly behind the listener at 180 degrees from the front center speaker.  It's hard to find a lot of references to 6.1 speaker placements as it seemed to die a pretty quick death, but here's one: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-h9jmTPqI9eK/learn/learningcenter/home/speaker_placement.html

Darin, so if I understand correctly, there's a way to configure the Realiser preset so the LFE channel can be fed to either of the front two speakers?  This would actually make a lot of sense, because that way you can still take a 5.0 setup that you've virtualized using only one or two speakers (with no subwoofer), and then if you have a source that is 5.1 but the source player isn't itself capable of mixing the LFE channel into the other 5 channels (as it seems at least the PS3 is not, not sure about other blu-ray players -- there's no 5.0 or 7.0 LPCM output options, only 2.0, 5.1 or 7.1), you don't lose the sound from the LFE channel -- since the PRIR was created without an LFE channel speaker.  I imagine if you had a processor, it could handle the mixing of the LFE channel into the other channels and it wouldn't be an issue.  Or am I completely misunderstanding how the Realiser works with subwoofers that are or are not in the original speaker configuration that's being emulated? 

Also, since you can't tell directionality from sound in the frequencies covered by the LFE channel, would it matter at all that it was only coming from the front two channels, and not from any of the other surround channels? 

My question is mainly because I was curious about listening to a 5.1 channel source (a movie generally) using a "virtualized" 5.1 or 7.1 PRIR made with just 2 speakers and no subwoofer, without being able to convert it to 5.0 LPCM channels before passing them to the Realiser. 

Apparently the DTS 6.1 standard was set such that speaker placement was pretty much the same as 5.1, but with an added center surround channel, one speaker directly behind the listener at 180 degrees from the front center speaker.  It's hard to find a lot of references to 6.1 speaker placements as it seemed to die a pretty quick death, but here's one: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-h9jmTPqI9eK/learn/learningcenter/home/speaker_placement.html

Darin, so if I understand correctly, there's a way to configure the Realiser preset so the LFE channel can be fed to either of the front two speakers?  This would actually make a lot of sense, because that way you can still take a 5.0 setup that you've virtualized using only one or two speakers (with no subwoofer), and then if you have a source that is 5.1 but the source player isn't itself capable of mixing the LFE channel into the other 5 channels (as it seems at least the PS3 is not, not sure about other blu-ray players -- there's no 5.0 or 7.0 LPCM output options, only 2.0, 5.1 or 7.1), you don't lose the sound from the LFE channel -- since the PRIR was created without an LFE channel speaker.  I imagine if you had a processor, it could handle the mixing of the LFE channel into the other channels and it wouldn't be an issue.  Or am I completely misunderstanding how the Realiser works with subwoofers that are or are not in the original speaker configuration that's being emulated? 

Also, since you can't tell directionality from sound in the frequencies covered by the LFE channel, would it matter at all that it was only coming from the front two channels, and not from any of the other surround channels? 

My question is mainly because I was curious about listening to a 5.1 channel source (a movie generally) using a "virtualized" 5.1 or 7.1 PRIR made with just 2 speakers and no subwoofer, without being able to convert it to 5.0 LPCM channels before passing them to the Realiser. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jand 
Darin, so if I understand correctly, there's a way to configure the Realiser preset so the LFE channel can be fed to either of the front two speakers?  This would actually make a lot of sense, because that way you can still take a 5.0 setup that you've virtualized using only one or two speakers (with no subwoofer), and then if you have a source that is 5.1 but the source player isn't itself capable of mixing the LFE channel into the other 5 channels (as it seems at least the PS3 is not, not sure about other blu-ray players -- there's no 5.0 or 7.0 LPCM output options, only 2.0, 5.1 or 7.1), you don't lose the sound from the LFE channel -- since the PRIR was created without an LFE channel speaker.  I imagine if you had a processor, it could handle the mixing of the LFE channel into the other channels and it wouldn't be an issue.  Or am I completely misunderstanding how the Realiser works with subwoofers that are or are not in the original speaker configuration that's being emulated? 

Also, since you can't tell directionality from sound in the frequencies covered by the LFE channel, would it matter at all that it was only coming from the front two channels, and not from any of the other surround channels? 

My question is mainly because I was curious about listening to a 5.1 channel source (a movie generally) using a "virtualized" 5.1 or 7.1 PRIR made with just 2 speakers and no subwoofer, without being able to convert it to 5.0 LPCM channels before passing them to the Realiser. 

Yes. You can deal with the LFE in a few ways.

1. You can set up the Realiser to route the LFE channel to the headphones directly. The LFE channel has no directionality and you can control how much of the LFE is sent to your headphones.
2. You can route the LFE to the tactile outputs and then connect a subwoofer or tactile transducer to that output for some actual low end that's better than just headphone low end.
3. You can route the LFE to the center, Ls, or Rs channels.

If you look in the Realiser manual online, you can see a lot of information about handling LFE including bass management settings for DTS or Dolby.

When you create a 5.1 or 7.1 PRIR from two speakers, the Realiser creates or extrapolates a virtual center channel and a subwoofer channel. So when you listen to 5.1, the Realiser does playback the subwoofer speaker even if there wasn't one in the original 2.0 system.

Quote:

Originally Posted by darinf 

 

Now that I know how it's done, I am looking a an iOS audio app that might be able to do the same thing as FooBar with the VST plugins. The only bummer is that this app is $50 and I don't really want to spend the money just to see if it works. There is no trial version as far as I know. But can you imagine being able to play back your music and apply a PRIR and HPEQ in real-time in an iPhone or iPad?

 

That's what someone mentioned that Lorr had mentioned.

 

(Or maybe I should just write an app to do it. The algorithms used in the VST plugins are very well known and not proprietary.)

 

-Darin

FYI, I was able to get an app on my iPad to play back music as a simulated PRIR/HPEQ playback. However, it's not really practical. The app, Auria, costs $50. Then you have to load WAV files into the app via iTunes App Sync, BUT the stereo audio must be split into two separate files, one for left and one for right. The iPad is fast enough to do the processing in real-time though.

At that point, you might as well just pre-process the audio files on the PC or Mac and then just load those rendered audio files onto any portable audio device.

Oh well...

I'm interested in getting instructions in how to record the digital stream out of the A8.

Would anyone please post those instructions or tell me where to find them?

I did do a search of this thread and couldn't find that information. If I missed it, sorry about that.

Joel

Quote:

Originally Posted by joelha 

I'm interested in getting instructions in how to record the digital stream out of the A8.

 

Would anyone please post those instructions or tell me where to find them?

 

I did do a search of this thread and couldn't find that information. If I missed it, sorry about that.

 

Joel

To record the output of the Realiser, the best way is to connect the digital/optical output of the Realiser to an optical input of a Mac or PC. However, most PC's don't have optical inputs, only outputs.

I bought this device so I could record the Realiser output onto my laptop. It's only $26 on Amazon. It can be used on a desktop or laptop.

Then you can use Audacity to record the audio on your PC. I am not sure what app there are on Mac to record audio.

I tried recording the analog audio out of the Realiser onto my portable audio recorder, but the quality suffered from going from D to A to D again.

Also note that the optical digital audio output level is tied to the gain settings on the Realiser. So even though it's digital, you will still have to set your levels by changing the volume on your Realiser.

I noticed the recent macbook pros no longer have analog/digital in combined in the form of 3.5mm jack like they used to (my mbp from early 2011 has it). I assume it's because most people that used to use this (headphone + mic) now use built-in mics and the others use external soundcard for recording mostly... As for audacity, it is available on the mac, that's what I used for my headphone measurements.

Does anyone know if the Realiser works both on 110/220 V or there are different models according to the voltage required?

Great information, Darinf. Thanks a lot for that.

What file format does the A8 output?

Is it possible to load the file to an Ipod or something similar for playback or is a file conversion required?

Any tips for how to configure a PC (not a Mac) to properly record the A8's output?

I've got the following item on order: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004275EO4/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00 but see that it takes some configuring to make the device work properly, per a comment from a buyer:

"-Replace the generic windows drivers of the soundcard with Creative's drivers by installing the drivers located in the installation CD.
-From the same CD, install Creative Entertainment Console and Creative Audio Control Panel.
-In Creative Entertainment Console, go to Mixer, and under playback, uncross SPDIF in. This passes anything that comes through the SPDIF in port to whatever speakers/headphones you have connected to your DAC.
-Make sure that under the recording tab in the windows console (when you right click the speaker icon and click on recording devices), you do not have, "Listen to this device," checked off for SPDIF in. There will be weird delay issues if you have "listen to this device" checked off in the windows console and SPDIF in enabled under the mixer tab in the Creative Entertainment Console.
-While you are under the recording tab in the windows console (when you right click the speaker icon and click on recording devices), make sure you have SPDIF in set as the default recording device. This tells WINDOWS to accept the input coming in from SPDIF in instead of the other inputs: Line in, Phono in, and Microphone.
-In the windows console, make sure you have the sample rates for SPDIF in and Speaker be the same."

Is anything similar required for the device you purchased?

And lastly (at least for this message), I'm assuming the recording can only be made in real time, is that right?

Thanks very much for your help with this. I'm getting my A8 tomorrow and am very excited about giving it a shot.

Joel

You're going to need more than just record the outputs of the Realiser. I tried that in the prir exchange thread some pages ago. You will also need some plugins (that I think Jurgen mentioned in that thread). If you just record it the entire surround/out of the head experience is gone. Even just playing back a mp3 at 128 bitrate sounds better than the result you would get. All the surround channels will just blend together in a very unatural way.

Anyways, im looking for some kind of switch/splitter that would connect my oppo and yamaha av receiver to my realiser analog inputs. Does anyone have a good tip or brand in mind for this? What exactly shoud I be looking for?

Thanks in advance!
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoax 

You're going to need more than just record the outputs of the Realiser. I tried that in the prir exchange thread some pages ago. You will also need some plugins (that I think Jurgen mentioned in that thread). If you just record it the entire surround/out of the head experience is gone. Even just playing back a mp3 at 128 bitrate sounds better than the result you would get. All the surround channels will just blend together in a very unatural way.

 

Anyways, im looking for some kind of switch/splitter that would connect my oppo and yamaha av receiver to my realiser analog inputs. Does anyone have a good tip or brand in mind for this? What exactly shoud I be looking for?

 

Thanks in advance!
 

I am not sure why you say it won't work?

Maybe we're talking about two different things.

I think what joelha was asking about was just recording the processed two channel headphone output of the Realiser to listen to the processed output on a different device.

In that case, you can just record the phones output via analog or use the optical digital output. There is no difference between listening to the output directly through the Realiser as you would normally, or recording the output and listening to that same audio with headphones on another device.

I have done it and it works perfectly fine either digital or analog. I listen to the recorded output on my Clip+ all the time and everything works, even 5.1 or 7.1 audio.

What Jurgen is talking about is using plug-ins to simlulate Realiser processing WITHOUT using the Realiser. That's very different than just recording the output of the Realiser.

Quote:

Originally Posted by joelha 

Great information, Darinf. Thanks a lot for that.

 

What file format does the A8 output?

 

Is it possible to load the file to an Ipod or something similar for playback or is a file conversion required?

 

Any tips for how to configure a PC (not a Mac) to properly record the A8's output?

 

I've got the following item on order: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004275EO4/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00 but see that it takes some configuring to make the device work properly, per a comment from a buyer:

 

"-Replace the generic windows drivers of the soundcard with Creative's drivers by installing the drivers located in the installation CD.
-From the same CD, install Creative Entertainment Console and Creative Audio Control Panel.
-In Creative Entertainment Console, go to Mixer, and under playback, uncross SPDIF in. This passes anything that comes through the SPDIF in port to whatever speakers/headphones you have connected to your DAC.
-Make sure that under the recording tab in the windows console (when you right click the speaker icon and click on recording devices), you do not have, "Listen to this device," checked off for SPDIF in. There will be weird delay issues if you have "listen to this device" checked off in the windows console and SPDIF in enabled under the mixer tab in the Creative Entertainment Console.
-While you are under the recording tab in the windows console (when you right click the speaker icon and click on recording devices), make sure you have SPDIF in set as the default recording device. This tells WINDOWS to accept the input coming in from SPDIF in instead of the other inputs: Line in, Phono in, and Microphone.
-In the windows console, make sure you have the sample rates for SPDIF in and Speaker be the same."

 

Is anything similar required for the device you purchased?

 

And lastly (at least for this message), I'm assuming the recording can only be made in real time, is that right?

 

Thanks very much for your help with this. I'm getting my A8 tomorrow and am very excited about giving it a shot.

 

Joel

I believe the optical digital output of the Realiser is 24bit/48kHz sampling rate.

Once you record the output onto your hard drive, you can then load it onto any device for playback that supports the file format and sampling rate you recorded the file at. You may have to convert the file to a format that is compatible with your playback device. But other than that, it will work.

The configuration to select the optical input will vary depending on the application you're using to record and your Windows driver installation for the sound card you are using. Basically, assuming the drivers are installed properly, you should be able to select the SPDIF opctical input as your source for recording in Audacity or other audio recording software.

With my USB audio card, I just installed the drivers and then selected the right input within Audacity and I also used Adobe Audition.

The recording can only be done in real-time when recording directly from the Realiser. Also, any volume changes or setting changes will be in the recording, so don't touch the Realiser while recording.

Good luck with you Realiser. It has been the source of countless hours of fun for me!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoax 

Anyways, im looking for some kind of switch/splitter that would connect my oppo and yamaha av receiver to my realiser analog inputs. Does anyone have a good tip or brand in mind for this? What exactly shoud I be looking for?

 

I use this one as a 5.1 audio switcher.  Mine is called the NexxTech 1518251 Component Video Selector.

http://www.hdtvsupply.com/5-1-audio-switch.html

I have also used this one, the Coleman A/B 5.1, which can switch 6 balanced signals or 12 unbalanced signals.

http://www.hdtvsupply.com/col-ab51.html

The Zektor MAS7.1 switches between three 7.1 sources.

http://www.hdtvsupply.com/zektor-mas7-7-1-channel-audio-switch.html

Another option is to use DB9 or DB25 to RCA breakout cables and a manual A/B switch for DB9 or DB25.

Or, if the Oppo and Yamaha will never be powered on at the same time, you might be able to use basic Y-adapters instead of a switch.  That way, both of them are always physically connected to the Realiser, but only one of them is producing signals at any time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erik Garci 

I use this one as a 5.1 audio switcher.  Mine is called the NexxTech 1518251 Component Video Selector.

http://www.hdtvsupply.com/5-1-audio-switch.html

 

I have also used this one, the Coleman A/B 5.1, which can switch 6 balanced signals or 12 unbalanced signals.

http://www.hdtvsupply.com/col-ab51.html

 

The Zektor MAS7.1 switches between three 7.1 sources.

http://www.hdtvsupply.com/zektor-mas7-7-1-channel-audio-switch.html

 

Another option is to use DB9 or DB25 to RCA breakout cables and a manual A/B switch for DB9 or DB25.

 

Or, if the Oppo and Yamaha will never be powered on at the same time, you might be able to use basic Y-adapters instead of a switch.  That way, both of them are always physically connected to the Realiser, but only one of them is producing signals at any time.

Thanks for the reply :)

The 7.1 switch seems like the way to go, its 499 USD though :( .. Guess I will either look into your last solution about using adapters or see if i can just connect the oppo to the yamaha

About recording sound from the Realiser, the last time I tried that I tried to record surround 5.1 directly from the optical output to optical in on my pc. Maybe in 2 channel mode things would sound the same but trying to catch the surround feeling didnt work for me. Not sure how it would sound from the analog headphone out, you would expect it should sound the same.