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Long awaited Smyth SVS Realiser NOW AVAILABLE FOR PURCHASE - Page 141

post #2101 of 2713

I guess no one here has tried TH900 with Realiser?

 

While the comfort with LCD-3 is decend, sometimes it starts to irk me a bit. I'm starting to consider something like HD800 also (though sillysally didn't like it). I guess there aren't any Stax in this price range that are comfortable and can do atleast moderate subbass? Not sure if HE6 is comfortable if it's anything like HE500..

 

Maybe I should try something completely different and try IEMs (JH16?).


Edited by hekeli - 10/23/12 at 12:11am
post #2102 of 2713
Quote:
Originally Posted by darinf View Post


FYI, I just finished trying to get FooBar2000 to play back a sample PRIR as per Jurgen's instructions. It works!!!

 

I have yet to compare it to the Realiser output, but through FooBar2000, it sounds pretty good! I am still trying to figure out the details, but I was able to load my Cello 3.0 PRIR and it works in real-time.

 

I need to figure out how to create a bunch of presets for each PRIR. (Edit: I just figured out how to set presets to change PRIR's. Now I can have as many presets as I want instead of just the 4 on the Realiser!)

 

This method also does not incorporate an HPEQ. (If I use IEM's, then the HPEQ isn't used anyway.)

 

So now, using my USB sound card, I can listen to any music on my laptop as if it was playing through the Realiser, but without bringing the Realiser with me. This is very exciting. For example, rather than buying a second Realiser to have at work or in the bedroom, you can just use a laptop of work computer to enjoy your Realiser sound!

 

Jurgen's instructions were pretty good, but it still took some figuring out to get it all working. (Thank you Jurgen, "Jlejle"!!!)

 

-Darin

Really terrific!  However, for me I would need someone to translate Jurgen's instructions from English to English.  Not meaning to offend. -- I wish I could speak German as well as Jurgen speaks English.   It's just that those of us not as technically sophisticated have to deal with language issues along with the technical ones when trying to understand how to do this.  You could probably develop a small income on this forum creating software to facilitate this process, or even marketing a PRIR for idiots instruction set!  BTW, I am assuming that Decibel or one of the Mac compatible players would work as well as Foobar2000 as I have a Mac.  Correct?

 

Stewart

post #2103 of 2713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiritz View Post

Really terrific!  However, for me I would need someone to translate Jurgen's instructions from English to English.  Not meaning to offend. -- I wish I could speak German as well as Jurgen speaks English.   It's just that those of us not as technically sophisticated have to deal with language issues along with the technical ones when trying to understand how to do this.  You could probably develop a small income on this forum creating software to facilitate this process, or even marketing a PRIR for idiots instruction set!  BTW, I am assuming that Decibel or one of the Mac compatible players would work as well as Foobar2000 as I have a Mac.  Correct?

 

Stewart


Yes, I agree. I know that Jurgen is REALLY knowledgeable, but his English translation is tough to understand at times. I can't imagine trying to write highly technical information in a foreign language! Not faulting Jurgen for that, but it can be hard to figure out.

 

Now, you add to that the fact that he is Windows based, not Mac based, and it will be even tougher. I don't have a Mac either.

 

But, in theory, it should work  on a Mac. First, you need a music player app, but it has to support VST plugins. I am not familiar with any of those apps, but from a brief search, the only one that is supposed to support VST plugins is Fidelia. VST plugins are designed for digital audio workstations used for audio engineering. So VST support for music player apps is limited.

(Update: Apparently when Fidelia moved to 64bit, they had to lose VST plug-in support. So, only versions before 1.2 will work with VST.)

 

Here's a list of Mac VST host applications.

 

So assuming you have some audio app and it works with VST, then you need to have Bidule and Reverberate LE. Bidule is not free, but you can use the trial just to make sure it works with the old version of Fidelia or which ever app you end up trying.

 

I think you may end up having to use a DAW app instead of a music player. Not ideal, for sure, but it may work just to be able to process your audio files for listening on a portable MP3 player.

 

I would just try to get any application that will actually load Bidule and Reverberate LE. Once you get that far, maybe we can figure out the rest. I have a basic understanding of how Jurgen is doing it.

 

-Darin

post #2104 of 2713
Quote:
Originally Posted by darinf View Post


Yes, I agree. I know that Jurgen is REALLY knowledgeable, but his English translation is tough to understand at times. I can't imagine trying to write highly technical information in a foreign language! Not faulting Jurgen for that, but it can be hard to figure out.

 

Now, you add to that the fact that he is Windows based, not Mac based, and it will be even tougher. I don't have a Mac either.

 

But, in theory, it should work  on a Mac. First, you need a music player app, but it has to support VST plugins. I am not familiar with any of those apps, but from a brief search, the only one that is supposed to support VST plugins is Fidelia. VST plugins are designed for digital audio workstations used for audio engineering. So VST support for music player apps is limited.

(Update: Apparently when Fidelia moved to 64bit, they had to lose VST plug-in support. So, only versions before 1.2 will work with VST.)

 

Here's a list of Mac VST host applications.

 

So assuming you have some audio app and it works with VST, then you need to have Bidule and Reverberate LE. Bidule is not free, but you can use the trial just to make sure it works with the old version of Fidelia or which ever app you end up trying.

 

I think you may end up having to use a DAW app instead of a music player. Not ideal, for sure, but it may work just to be able to process your audio files for listening on a portable MP3 player.

 

I would just try to get any application that will actually load Bidule and Reverberate LE. Once you get that far, maybe we can figure out the rest. I have a basic understanding of how Jurgen is doing it.

 

-Darin

Thanks, Darin!  I have a windows based computer that I can use for this process.  This probably would be easier.  And I only need to use the computer to generate the files which I can play back over a portable device anyway.   I can use Foobar2000 I assume.  Then I would install the two plug ins you mention.  I'll let you know when I get that going.  Maybe I can follow Jurgen from there.  But likely I will ask for help again.  It is a very intriguing idea.  I'd love to be able to do a virtualization on a laptop or computer in another site from my main listening room.

 

S.

post #2105 of 2713
Quote:
Originally Posted by darinf View Post


FYI, I just finished trying to get FooBar2000 to play back a sample PRIR as per Jurgen's instructions. It works!!!

 

I have yet to compare it to the Realiser output, but through FooBar2000, it sounds pretty good! I am still trying to figure out the details, but I was able to load my Cello 3.0 PRIR and it works in real-time.

 

I need to figure out how to create a bunch of presets for each PRIR. (Edit: I just figured out how to set presets to change PRIR's. Now I can have as many presets as I want instead of just the 4 on the Realiser!)

 

This method also does not incorporate an HPEQ. (If I use IEM's, then the HPEQ isn't used anyway.)

 

So now, using my USB sound card, I can listen to any music on my laptop as if it was playing through the Realiser, but without bringing the Realiser with me. This is very exciting. For example, rather than buying a second Realiser to have at work or in the bedroom, you can just use a laptop of work computer to enjoy your Realiser sound!

 

Jurgen's instructions were pretty good, but it still took some figuring out to get it all working. (Thank you Jurgen, "Jlejle"!!!)

 

-Darin


I tell you, Jurgen has been SO helpful! He always replies with lengthy explanations/answers to my endless questions about all of this stuff.

 

With his help, I was able to figure out how to create my own impulse response files to feed into FooBar. Now I can take any PRIR AND HPEQ combo and covert it to play back in FooBar on my laptop.

 

I did a quick test. I made a preset on the Realiser and then played music and recorded the digital output to a WAV file on my computer. Then I loaded up the WAV file in VLC on the PC. Then I also had the same song loaded in FooBar using a preset I set up that has the same PRIR and HPEQ. By doing this, I could quickly switch back and forth between the Realiser output and the FooBar SVS simulation of the same music file.

 

There might be some very subtle differences, but when switching back and forth, I could not really hear much difference. In blind test, there is no way I could tell which was which! The speaker localization was spot on. The frequency response/timbre was REALLY close. Maybe if I had to say something, I would say the Realiser recording may have had a little more bass.

 

I am quite surprised since were talking about two completely different signal paths and processing yielding very similar results. FooBar is not directly using the PRIR or HPEQ file.

 

The only downside of this process is that my audio card only has a 2 channel input, so I cannot have Console process 6 or 8 channels at once to watch movies in 5.1 or 7.1. If I had a card like Jurgen, then you could get full surround real-time processing without having to hook up/bring your Realiser.

 

Now that I know how it's done, I am looking a an iOS audio app that might be able to do the same thing as FooBar with the VST plugins. The only bummer is that this app is $50 and I don't really want to spend the money just to see if it works. There is no trial version as far as I know. But can you imagine being able to play back your music and apply a PRIR and HPEQ in real-time in an iPhone or iPad?

 

That's what someone mentioned that Lorr had mentioned.

 

(Or maybe I should just write an app to do it. The algorithms used in the VST plugins are very well known and not proprietary.)

 

-Darin

post #2106 of 2713
Quote:
Originally Posted by darinf View Post


I tell you, Jurgen has been SO helpful! He always replies with lengthy explanations/answers to my endless questions about all of this stuff.

 

With his help, I was able to figure out how to create my own impulse response files to feed into FooBar. Now I can take any PRIR AND HPEQ combo and covert it to play back in FooBar on my laptop.

 

I did a quick test. I made a preset on the Realiser and then played music and recorded the digital output to a WAV file on my computer. Then I loaded up the WAV file in VLC on the PC. Then I also had the same song loaded in FooBar using a preset I set up that has the same PRIR and HPEQ. By doing this, I could quickly switch back and forth between the Realiser output and the FooBar SVS simulation of the same music file.

 

There might be some very subtle differences, but when switching back and forth, I could not really hear much difference. In blind test, there is no way I could tell which was which! The speaker localization was spot on. The frequency response/timbre was REALLY close. Maybe if I had to say something, I would say the Realiser recording may have had a little more bass.

 

I am quite surprised since were talking about two completely different signal paths and processing yielding very similar results. FooBar is not directly using the PRIR or HPEQ file.

 

The only downside of this process is that my audio card only has a 2 channel input, so I cannot have Console process 6 or 8 channels at once to watch movies in 5.1 or 7.1. If I had a card like Jurgen, then you could get full surround real-time processing without having to hook up/bring your Realiser.

 

Now that I know how it's done, I am looking a an iOS audio app that might be able to do the same thing as FooBar with the VST plugins. The only bummer is that this app is $50 and I don't really want to spend the money just to see if it works. There is no trial version as far as I know. But can you imagine being able to play back your music and apply a PRIR and HPEQ in real-time in an iPhone or iPad?

 

That's what someone mentioned that Lorr had mentioned.

 

(Or maybe I should just write an app to do it. The algorithms used in the VST plugins are very well known and not proprietary.)

 

-Darin

If you want to write an app to do it, some of us I'm sure would be happy to pitch in and cover some of your time :-))  Who knows?  If the components of the process are not proprietary and you put something together, maybe this could be your key to fame and fortune!!

post #2107 of 2713

I just discovered the Oppo BDP 103 (there will also be a 105 focusing on audiophiles).

 

http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-103/

 

Will the 103 work directly with the realiser? Or should I connect it to my Yamaha AV Surround receiver (which is connected to the realiser) ?

post #2108 of 2713

I think in theory the Oppo player should be able to feed LPCM via HDMI to the realiser.  I was looking at that as an option as well, as the dual HDMI outputs will avoid any HDMI handshake issues.  

A question on using 6.1 DTS-HD MA audio tracks on Blu-ray discs with a 5.1 or 7.1 PRIR with the Realiser.  I understand that a 6.1 LPCM signal to a receiver from the Bluray player will be scaled to the correct number of speakers hooked up to the system, but with the Realiser of course there is no receiver if it's connected directly to the Bluray player via HDMI as many seem to be doing.  How will the Realiser handle the playback of 6.1 material in that case?  Will it know to use both the rear speakers of the 7.1 setup to match the single rear speaker of the 6.1 signal?  Can Blu-rays be forced to output only 5.1 channels and still use the lossless DTS-HD MA signal, or if you want the lossless sound, you have to have 6.1 channels output? 

Thanks!

post #2109 of 2713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jand View Post

I think in theory the Oppo player should be able to feed LPCM via HDMI to the realiser.  I was looking at that as an option as well, as the dual HDMI outputs will avoid any HDMI handshake issues.  

A question on using 6.1 DTS-HD MA audio tracks on Blu-ray discs with a 5.1 or 7.1 PRIR with the Realiser.  I understand that a 6.1 LPCM signal to a receiver from the Bluray player will be scaled to the correct number of speakers hooked up to the system, but with the Realiser of course there is no receiver if it's connected directly to the Bluray player via HDMI as many seem to be doing.  How will the Realiser handle the playback of 6.1 material in that case?  Will it know to use both the rear speakers of the 7.1 setup to match the single rear speaker of the 6.1 signal?  Can Blu-rays be forced to output only 5.1 channels and still use the lossless DTS-HD MA signal, or if you want the lossless sound, you have to have 6.1 channels output? 

Thanks!


Where do you get 6.1 sources? I don't have any...

post #2110 of 2713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoax View Post

I just discovered the Oppo BDP 103 (there will also be a 105 focusing on audiophiles).

 

http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-103/

 

Will the 103 work directly with the realiser? Or should I connect it to my Yamaha AV Surround receiver (which is connected to the realiser) ?

I feed my Oppo 95 directly into the Realiser and don't use any other preamp or amp.  It works fine (and there is less in the signal chain).

post #2111 of 2713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiritz View Post

I feed my Oppo 95 directly into the Realiser and don't use any other preamp or amp.  It works fine (and there is less in the signal chain).


Thanks, thats good and bad news :)

 

Bad news that my yamaha become useless already after a few months. Wish i found these oppo's sooner lol

 

I wonder about the sound difference though, my yamaha costed more than the oppo which is pretty much an all in one thing .. Has anyone tried and heard any difference between a dedicated yamaha surround amp and the oppo?


Edited by Hoax - 10/24/12 at 2:57pm
post #2112 of 2713

Certain bluray discs that have DTS-HD MA that I guess were produced prior to 7.1, have DTS-HD MA 6.1 soundtracks, such as the Lord of the Rings extended edition bluray (http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Lord-of-the-Rings-The-Motion-Picture-Trilogy-Blu-ray/12237/).  But looking in my PS3 options, 6.1 LPCM doesn't even appear as an output option.  So hopefully the PS3 outputs the 6.1 as a 7.1 LPCM signal and converts the rear signal to span both the rear channels in 7.1.  Otherwise I assume it downmixes to 5.1, but I haven't been able to find any details on this anywhere, so if anyone knows, I'd really appreciate it. 

As a general question though, I'm curious how the Realiser might handle X.1 inputs matched to a Y.1 PRIR.  It's pretty easy to imagine how 5.1 LPCM signal works on a 7.1 PRIR -- just the extra two rear channels wouldn't play anything.  But particularly when going from, say, a 5.1 signal (with a discrete LFE channel) to a 5.0 PRIR created virtually...how would the .1 channel be handled, would it be distributed to the 5.0 speakers, or would it simply not appear and you'd miss the portion of the frequency response that the LFE channel normally would handle?  Or, a 2.1 signal to a 2.0 PRIR? 

post #2113 of 2713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jand View Post

Certain bluray discs that have DTS-HD MA that I guess were produced prior to 7.1, have DTS-HD MA 6.1 soundtracks, such as the Lord of the Rings extended edition bluray (http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Lord-of-the-Rings-The-Motion-Picture-Trilogy-Blu-ray/12237/).  But looking in my PS3 options, 6.1 LPCM doesn't even appear as an output option.  So hopefully the PS3 outputs the 6.1 as a 7.1 LPCM signal and converts the rear signal to span both the rear channels in 7.1.  Otherwise I assume it downmixes to 5.1, but I haven't been able to find any details on this anywhere, so if anyone knows, I'd really appreciate it. 

As a general question though, I'm curious how the Realiser might handle X.1 inputs matched to a Y.1 PRIR.  It's pretty easy to imagine how 5.1 LPCM signal works on a 7.1 PRIR -- just the extra two rear channels wouldn't play anything.  But particularly when going from, say, a 5.1 signal (with a discrete LFE channel) to a 5.0 PRIR created virtually...how would the .1 channel be handled, would it be distributed to the 5.0 speakers, or would it simply not appear and you'd miss the portion of the frequency response that the LFE channel normally would handle?  Or, a 2.1 signal to a 2.0 PRIR? 


The Realiser does not do any channel changing/combining, etc. It plays back whatever is fed to it on each channel as long as that channel exists in the PRIR.

 

If you have a 2.0 PRIR and feed it 8 channels, it just ignores all the other channels and plays only the 2 channels in the PRIR. Likewise, if you have a 7.1 PRIR and only feed it L and R, then it only plays audio from the L and R virtual speakers.

 

The Realiser will not do anything with the input channels. Think of the audio you're feeding it as a direct input to an "amp" on each virtual "speaker". Or just imagine you were only feeding the Realiser via the 8 analog inputs. If there's a signal on that input, it feeds it to that virtual speaker. If there is no signal, then it plays nothing on that channel.

 

(OK, I take that back a little. In the Realiser, you can adjust the mix on some of the channels so that you could mix part of the LFE channel to say the L channel, etc. The problem is that you would have to create a different preset to save any of the changes in the channel mix settings. For some reason, say with the Lb and Rb channels, you can't adjust the mix.)

 

It's better to leave it up to your processor or source to remap or combine any channels before converting it to LPCM and sending it to the Realiser.

post #2114 of 2713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoax View Post


Thanks, thats good and bad news :)

 

Bad news that my yamaha become useless already after a few months. Wish i found these oppo's sooner lol

 

I wonder about the sound difference though, my yamaha costed more than the oppo which is pretty much an all in one thing .. Has anyone tried and heard any difference between a dedicated yamaha surround amp and the oppo?


I feed my Dune HD Max directly to my Realiser it it works really well. Unfortunately it only has one HDMI output though. So I know in your application, that may be a "deal killer".

post #2115 of 2713
I think besides the question about what to do with the empty channel when playing 6.1 content in 7.1 format, you probably should be more concerned about the meaning of it. In particular, isn't a 6.1 mix specifically for playing over 6 identical speakers at 60 degres of each other plus a subwoofer? In which case, it is difficult to imagine the benefit of playing that back in a 7.1 configuration where the speakers are aligned differently.

Now, if the realizer supported 6.1 playing (where PRIRs would be recorded with the speakers in the correct position, then I can imagine one could be in for a treat if the room was adequately treated and a good quality (full range) speaker was used (rotating it around for the prir recording)!
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