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Long awaited Smyth SVS Realiser NOW AVAILABLE FOR PURCHASE - Page 130

post #1936 of 2713
Quote:
Originally Posted by darinf View Post

 

Your laptop will output 8 channels of LPCM via the HDMI out? What make and model is it? I wish my laptop's HDMI could do that. All I get is 2.0 LPCM channels via HDMI on my HP laptop.

I would think a computer will output any number of channels depending on the software. Edit: I tried on foobar the default 4 channel converter and it outputted the 4 channels and also with a 6 channels DVDA.


Edited by BoogieWoogie - 8/10/12 at 4:58am
post #1937 of 2713
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoogieWoogie View Post

I would think a computer will output any number of channels depending on the software. Edit: I tried on foobar the default 4 channel converter and it outputted the 4 channels and also with a 6 channels DVDA.


My laptop's video card does not support multi-channel output via HDMI. The only thing I can do is get it to output 2 channels via the HDMI out.

post #1938 of 2713

FYI: If you are only getting 2.0 channel audio via the HDMI in of the Realiser, PLEASE READ (or skip to the Conclusion below):

 

I was with Lorr doing a PRIR measurement/demo of the Realiser.

 

We tried using an Oppo 83 as a source, but no matter what we did, it would only output 2.0 audio via HDMI into the Realiser.

 

We then tried my Panasonic BDT320 as a source and that worked. It was outputting 7.1 to the Realiser.

 

Then all of a sudden, it would only output 2.0 channel audio. Even Lorr could not figure out why. He then brought his Realiser in and hooked it up and it was getting 7.1 audio from the same source, but my Realiser would only get 2.0 audio.

 

Before Lorr was ready to swap mine out as defective, we realized that it was the projector connected to the HDMI out/pass through that was requesting 2.0 audio via HDMI.

 

Then once the HDMI board in the Realiser was set to request 2.0 audio, it would only request 2.0 audio even AFTER disconnecting the projector.

 

The only way to "reset" the HDMI port on the Realiser to request multi channel audio was to connect the HDMI out to a device that would request multi channel audio. In this case, we connected the HDMI out to a surround sound preamp/processor which would definitely request multi channel audio.

 

Just by connecting the surround pre/pro to the HDMI output, that "reset" the Realiser's HDMI board so that it would request multi-channel audio from that point on.

 

Conclusion:

 

If you are only getting 2.0 channel audio via HDMI in the Realiser, try connecting the Realiser HDMI output to a device that supports multi-channel HDMI audio like a surround Preamp/Processor/Receiver.

 

Of course, some devices will not output multi-channel LPCM audio via HDMI, so in that case nothing you do will "fix" the problem.

 

-Darin

post #1939 of 2713

edit: i retook the hpeq and it was fine.


Edited by athenaesword - 8/15/12 at 7:26am
post #1940 of 2713

Can someone PM me with Lorr's phone number. I got a new phone, lost it and now need a replacement headband clip for the tracker. I've tried email and calling the office for the past few days with no return. Thanks guys.

post #1941 of 2713

I sent an email once and they took several days to reply, I guess this is normal.

 

Will SVS be at RMAF?
 

post #1942 of 2713
Quote:
If you are only getting 2.0 channel audio via HDMI in the Realiser, try connecting the Realiser HDMI output to a device that supports multi-channel HDMI audio like a surround Preamp/Processor/Receiver.

 

Have you or Lorr identified any processor that can do this? I looked around a few months ago and could not find any. Maybe the 5K+ ones, but I did not consider them.
 

post #1943 of 2713
Quote:
Originally Posted by VandyMan View Post

 

Have you or Lorr identified any processor that can do this? I looked around a few months ago and could not find any. Maybe the 5K+ ones, but I did not consider them.
 


What I mean is to connect any device which accepts surround encoded audio via HDMI. I think almost every A/V receiver that decodes DTS or Dolby via an HDMI input will work, even the cheap one's. Basically all the AV receivers must ask for is multi channel audio, DTS or Dolby, in order to do the processing/decoding. Does that make sense?

 

I am not sure why you couldn't find any. I think all of them request multi channel audio instead of only 2 channel. Otherwise what would be the point of an AV surround receiver if it only ever asked for 2 channel audio?

 

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to describe.

post #1944 of 2713
Quote:
Originally Posted by madbull View Post

I sent an email once and they took several days to reply, I guess this is normal.

 

Will SVS be at RMAF?
 


Lorr is the only person who returns e-mails and calls in the US from Smyth, as far as I know. If he happens to be traveling, which he does often, then it can take him a few days to return calls or e-mails. I would always recommend using his direct e-mail and phone rather than the one on the Smyth Research website. I am not sure he wants me to post those on a public forum though.

 

I assume it's OK for me to PM that info to you.

 

-Darin

post #1945 of 2713
Quote:
I am not sure why you couldn't find any. I think all of them request multi channel audio instead of only 2 channel. Otherwise what would be the point of an AV surround receiver if it only ever asked for 2 channel audio?

 

I read your post to mean output from the processor over HDMI to the Realizer. Analog can easily be done, as you point out.
 

post #1946 of 2713
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VandyMan View Post

 

I read your post to mean output from the processor over HDMI to the Realizer. Analog can easily be done, as you point out.
 

 

If I'm following this discussion subject correctly, I believe the potential problem relates to when the Realiser is used as part of an "HDMI relay" passing on video via its HDMI output to an HDTV display. HDMI handshaking is notoriously delicate when more than two devices are involved in an HDMI chain, insofar as how the initial source device will deliver its audio.  Whether or not the end-device's (i.e. HDTV) audio capabilities determine what the initial source device delivers, or whether the intermediate-device's (i.e. AVR, which is the first device connected via HDMI to the initial source device) capabilities control... this is not always a constant.  It's further complicated by possible "HDMI audio" settings in the source device, which are there to potentially overcome such complications and actually force audio delivery over HDMI to be a specific type.

 

For example, in my Yamaha RX-V863, if I set its HDMI audio to "pass-through", that apparently implies it is the end-device (i.e. HDTV) which drives what the source device (e.g. DVR) will deliver.  And since the HDTV can only accept 2.0, that's what the DVR delivers over HDMI to the AVR.  If "pass-through" is disabled, then it is the capability of the AVR itself (which obviously CAN accept multi-channel) which tells the DVR to deliver DD5.1 over HDMI. So obviously I have "pass-through" disabled on my AVR.  Also, that is also why if DD5.1 is the source audio you might as well use an optical connection from source device to AVR... since optical is NOT impacted by an HDMI handshake, and will ALWAYS deliver multi-channel from source device to the AVR.

 

That is why I have just upgraded my V863 (which has only one HDMI output) to a V867 (which has two HDMI outputs), as part of my upgrade from analog Realiser to HDMI realiser.  One HDMI output from the AVR will go to the Realiser (and no further HDMI connection from the Realiser's HDMI output), and the second HDMI output from the AVR will go directly to the HDTV.  My Oppo BluRay player will do its own decoding to LPCM to feed the AVR via HDMI and then on to the Realiser via HDMI.  My DVR will feed undecoded DD5.1 to the AVR (also via HDMI) which will then decode and feed discrete channel preamp-out analog to the Realiser via RCA analog.  I will simply switch Realiser inputs when watching BluRay movies with lossless DTS-HDMA vs. when watching HDTV from the DVR.

 

I had no desire to use the Realiser's HDMI-output to relay video to the HDTV, not only because of the potential for audio-over-HDMI problems, but also because I use the Realiser in analog-bypass mode (i.e. Realiser powered off) when listening through my 2.1 speakers so I still need to get video to the HDTV, which will not happen if the Realiser is powered off (when using the HDMI-relay output of the Realiser).  That's why I had to upgrade to a 2-HDMI-output AVR as part of the HDMI Realiser acquisition.


Edited by dsperber - 8/16/12 at 7:35am
post #1947 of 2713
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsperber View Post

 

If I'm following this discussion subject correctly, I believe the potential problem relates to when the Realiser is used as part of an "HDMI relay" passing on video via its HDMI output to an HDTV display. HDMI handshaking is notoriously delicate when more than two devices are involved in an HDMI chain, insofar as how the initial source device will deliver its audio.  Whether or not the end-device's (i.e. HDTV) audio capabilities determine what the initial source device delivers, or whether the intermediate-device's (i.e. AVR, which is the first device connected via HDMI to the initial source device) capabilities control... this is not always a constant.  It's further complicated by possible "HDMI audio" settings in the source device, which are there to potentially overcome such complications and actually force audio delivery over HDMI to be a specific type.

 

For example, in my Yamaha RX-V863, if I set its HDMI audio to "pass-through", that apparently implies it is the end-device (i.e. HDTV) which drives what the source device (e.g. DVR) will deliver.  And since the HDTV can only accept 2.0, that's what the DVR delivers over HDMI to the AVR.  If "pass-through" is disabled, then it is the capability of the AVR itself (which obviously CAN accept multi-channel) which tells the DVR to deliver DD5.1 over HDMI. So obviously I have "pass-through" disabled on my AVR.  Also, that is also why if DD5.1 is the source audio you might as well use an optical connection from source device to AVR... since optical is NOT impacted by an HDMI handshake, and will ALWAYS deliver multi-channel from source device to the AVR.

 

That is why I have just upgraded my V863 (which has only one HDMI output) to a V867 (which has two HDMI outputs), as part of my upgrade from analog Realiser to HDMI realiser.  One HDMI output from the AVR will go to the Realiser (and no further HDMI connection from the Realiser's HDMI output), and the second HDMI output from the AVR will go directly to the HDTV.  My Oppo BluRay player will do its own decoding to LPCM to feed the AVR via HDMI and then on to the Realiser via HDMI.  My DVR will feed undecoded DD5.1 to the AVR (also via HDMI) which will then decode and feed discrete channel preamp-out analog to the Realiser via RCA analog.  I will simply switch Realiser inputs when watching BluRay movies with lossless DTS-HDMA vs. when watching HDTV from the DVR.

 

I had no desire to use the Realiser's HDMI-output to relay video to the HDTV, not only because of the potential for audio-over-HDMI problems, but also because I use the Realiser in analog-bypass mode (i.e. Realiser powered off) when listening through my 2.1 speakers so I still need to get video to the HDTV, which will not happen if the Realiser is powered off (when using the HDMI-relay output of the Realiser).  That's why I had to upgrade to a 2-HDMI-output AVR as part of the HDMI Realiser acquisition.


Thanks for the great explanation. You are exactly right.

 

Since my sources don't have multiple HDMI outputs, I use this 4x2 HDMI matrix switcher from Monoprice.com. It was on sale a few weeks ago for $45! I am not sure if it supports 3D, but they do have one that does for a few more dollars.

 

Using the switch will solve many problems including having to turn on the Realiser in order for HDMI pass-through to work. It also avoids the problem with having more than 3 HDMI devices in a chain. For example if you go Blu-ray to Realiser to AVR to monitor or projector, typically you will not get a useable signal by the time it gets to your monitor or projector. We had that problem at Ivan's house.

 

-Darin

post #1948 of 2713

The problem I'm referring to is a bit different. The Realizer only accepts PCM over HDMI. Most pre-pros and receivers will only pass multi-channel PCM over HDMI if it is the input format. So if you feed a pre-pro DD 5.1, most pre-pros will not be able to convert the signal to multi-channel PCM and output it over an HDMI connection. You can output it on the analog multi-channel connections, of course.


Edited by VandyMan - 8/17/12 at 1:38pm
post #1949 of 2713
Quote:
Originally Posted by VandyMan View Post

The problem I'm referring to is a bit different. The Realizer only accepts PCM over HDMI. Most pre-pros and receivers will only pass multi-channel PCM over HDMI if it is the input format. So if you feed a pre-pro DD 5.1, most pre-pros will not be able to convert the signal to multi-channel PCM and output it over an HDMI connection. You can output it on the analog multi-channel connections, of course.

Yes, that's the case for most devices. The only devices I have found that can decode Dolby or DTS and output 6 or 8 channels of PCM over HDMI are Blu-Ray players. And even then, very few Blu-Ray players even do it.

 

I am told it's a licensing issue. Besides the Oppo Blu-Ray players, which do it, I can confirm that the Panasonic BDT320 and the Samsung E6500 Blu-Ray players will do it. I have owned them both and used them with the Realiser. Although I had recommended the Panasonic before, I can't recommend it any more. It is useless as a media player to play back files off a hard drive. So far the Samsung is working well, but it cannot decode DTS encoded files. It only works with Dolby encoded files. I hear the most compatible media player is the Dune HD Max or Duo, but those are $600 or $500 respectively.

 

I do not have an surround pre-pro, so I cannot say which one's work with the Realiser.

 

-Darin

post #1950 of 2713
Quote:
Originally Posted by profsbg View Post

I have a room correction speaker system which can apply  room correction to 2 channel analog  input or  multichannel LPCM over HDMI. Although the system has multichannel analog input, no correction can be applied that way. Since the A8 model apparently can only perform measurements generated by its multichannel analog out, it seems like it can only be used for stereo measurements. Switching speaker outputs and trying to trick the room correction system to think that surround channels are R/L is not possible because of the way the room correction (Trinnov) works.

 

I can make multichannel measurements without room correction, and they can be used with the room correction in the loop via the multichannel analog input to the Realiser. However, I then have both the room correction  and Realiser processing in the chain, lose portability, etc..

 

It seems like I need an AVR or prepro which can do room correction on multichannel analog input to use the Realiser as a standalone processor ( Blu-Ray > Realiser). For those who have done their own multichannel measurements and are using this type of configuration, how do you do it? Is there some workaround or am I just missing something?

I hear you. I am going to purchase a Smyth A8 but I also have a R-972, but to get the sound over headphones that I get with the loudspeakers in the room with Trinnov engaged, there would need to be an ADC box between the Smyth and the R-972 so the Trinnov could be applied to the Smyth test signals, since the test signals are output from the Smyth box as analog-only outputs. Therefore, it's either Smyth or Trinnov. But this is a problem the Smyth would have with almost every other surround receiver in existence that has DSP: No DSP can be applied to multichannel analog inputs, so if you want to use Audyssey or Trinnov or any other DSP with the Smyth, you are out of luck. There may be a few receivers that do an analog to digital conversion on the analog multichannel inputs, but that would be a very small handful of receivers. And an ADC box between the Smyth box and the receiver is not a practical solution either, since it would only be needed when the Smyth is set up or 'personalized', so buying such an ADC for a one time use would make no sense.

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