Long awaited Smyth SVS Realiser NOW AVAILABLE FOR PURCHASE - Page 126

I just had a great conversation with Lorr from Smyth.He was extremely helpful. Great guy.

Anyway, he answered my multitude of questions.

Since I couldn't find a definitive answer about AIX online, here's the rates he quoted me:

AIX Studio rental for measurements:

$200 for their 5.1 system

$100 additional to set the room up for 7.1

$100 additional to do a measurement in their JBL THX 5.1 system.

Then, if you want Lorr there to do the actual measurements, he charges $200.

Overall, I think those are fairly reasonable prices especially since I am within driving distance from AIX.

they are businesses, just like studios money should motivate them - I bet if you buy a 007 or 009 Stax rig, high end DAC/player from them for list they would let you calibrate with your Realizer against a few showroom setups

$100-200/hr sounds reasonable depending on time of day, if you're not interfering with normal store traffic or causing too much work supervising/changing the setups

it does introduce a rather new IP/ethics issue - the loudspeaker/amp/processor manufacturer's never anticipated that store demo setup's "sound" could be effectively "duplicated", some products may be there "on spec", not actually owned by the store, even the store's purchased stock is at the dealer wholesale price which includes the presumption that the dealer is trying to sell the product, not generate revenue from a single system

I would guess any interaction/resulting mention of high end amps/speakers by a Realizer user is worth it for the word of mouth advertising vs the relatively few people using the Realizer representing even fewer "lost sales"

although you have to suspect arguments that rely on "relatively few" doing it vs the situation when "everyone" does

Well, I ordered a Realiser today.  Hopefully it will be here within a week or so.

Has anyone ever tried using IEM's with the Realiser? I asked Lorr about it and he said it should work. With IEM's you don't need an HPEQ since there is no ear interaction with the headphones.

I have a pair of Etymotic ER-4S IEM's. I really like their sound so we'll see if they are good enough to get accurate sound from the Realiser. I am guessing Stax will work better though.

I also bought a used pair of Stax 407's and a 323 amp for about the same price as the Stax 2170 that is normally bundled with the Realiser. It should be interesting to compare the two.

I have also contacted some of the local hi fi stores to see what kind of reaction I get from asking about using their demo showrooms for calibrations. (There are no Smyth dealers in San Diego or I would have bought one from them.) I am not hopeful that anyone will actually respond, but it can't hurt to try. I was hoping that one of the stores might be interested enough in the technology to let me come in a demo the Realiser for them and make my PRIR's. We'll see...

Anyone near San Diego want to let me do a PRIR with their system? You could come do one with my system, but I only have a 2 channel setup in a very live, reflective room (not very good). It's all Cello gear though...

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnaud 

I don't see how an iem can work because it will most likely have been tuned to some target curve (FF or DF) which means it should compensate for the fact it isn't being filtered by the outer ear.
So what you'll get is your own ear effect ( imprint PRIR ), plus whatever the artificial ear response the iem was tuned against. At the very least the tonal balance should sound off.

Nope, IEM's, particularly custom IEM's work perfectly with the Realiser. 

In a nutshell, don't use an HPEQ file, use only PRIR when using IEM's.

An HPEQ compensates for how the outer ear effects incoming sound into your ears.

An IEM bypasses the outer ear, so no HPEQ is required.  A custom IEM has the most optimized driver placement.

The only caveat is the occlusion effect or "stuffy head" feel you get from your ears being plugged up and the noise isolating effect.  It can detract from the illusion of the virtual speakers.  But once you get used to it, it really makes for an even more magical effect.

I use my JH Audio JH-13's with my Realiser all the time. 

-Ed

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwood 

Nope, IEM's, particularly custom IEM's work perfectly with the Realiser. 

 

In a nutshell, don't use an HPEQ file, use only PRIR when using IEM's.

 

An HPEQ compensates for how the outer ear effects incoming sound into your ears.

 

An IEM bypasses the outer ear, so no HPEQ is required.  A custom IEM has the most optimized driver placement.

 

The only caveat is the occlusion effect or "stuffy head" feel you get from your ears being plugged up and the noise isolating effect.  It can detract from the illusion of the virtual speakers.  But once you get used to it, it really makes for an even more magical effect.

 

I use my JH Audio JH-13's with my Realiser all the time. 

 

-Ed

In addition to the HPEQ compensating for the affect of the outer ear on the sound to the inner ear, I also thought the HPEQ compensates for the sound signature of the headphones themselves. As Arnaud said, what if the IEM's have certain peaks in frequency response as most headphones do? I thought the HPEQ also compensated to correct the frequency response of the headphones to match the frequency response of the system you are measuring. I guess without an HPEQ, the Realiser could just assume that the headphones have a perfectly flat frequency response, which may or may not be true. Probably not as accurate as using over the ear headphones and having an HPEQ measurement.

I also hadn't thought about the "stuffy head" feel. That would be rather strange to have "ear plugs" in and yet still hear the virtual speakers in the room. But in the case of the Etymotic ER-4, the sound is very open and transparent even though my ears are "plugged". Maybe it will just sound like I am listening in a quite room.

Lorr did mention that having open headphones like the Stax works particularly well to help in the illusion of the sound coming from the speakers instead of the headphones. I can see how that would be the case when compared to IEMs or sealed headphones.

-Darin

Here's what Lorr said about IEM's (I assume he doesn't mind me sharing this with all of you.):

That's what I thought. Makes sense. I'll try to report back once I get my complete setup running.

-Darin

Nice clarification darinf.

How do you setup the Realiser not to use an HPEQ?  Can you just do a preset without a HPEQ assigned?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elysian 

How do you setup the Realiser not to use an HPEQ?  Can you just do a preset without a HPEQ assigned?

PRIR files and HPEQ files are separate files and can be loaded independently from each other.  You have to load a PRIR, but an HPEQ can be optional.

In anticipation of receiving my Realiser, I was wondering the best way to hook everything up, especially the headphones/amp.

I plan on using a media player like the Western Digital WDTV Live as my source. I feed the output of that to the Realiser via HDMI.

Then the line out audio from the back of the Realiser to the Stax amp.

But my main question is where do you put the headphone amp? Do you put it near the equipment shelves/rack and then have a long enough headphone cord to reach to your listening position?

Or do you use long line level RCA cables from the Realiser and put the headphone amp near your listening position?

A long Stax headphone cable would probably be more expensive than long RCA audio cable. (Depending on how expensive your interconnect cables are, of course.)

Thanks,

-Darin

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsperber 

From what I can surmise, that WDTV device does not do this... unless I'm wrong.

I have a WDTV Live. I think the latest release of the firmware supports up to 8 channels of multichannel LPCM audio via the HDMI output.

I am not sure what sampling rates are supported for each channel, I think it's 96/24bit PCM audio.

In any case, I can go into my setup menu and select Multichannel LPCM for HDMI output and I can select either 6 channels or 8 channels.

I have no way to test it until I get my Realiser. I don't have a 5.1 or 7.1 system.

-Darin

Quote:

Originally Posted by darinf 

 

I have a WDTV Live. I think the latest release of the firmware supports up to 8 channels of multichannel LPCM audio via the HDMI output.

 

I am not sure what sampling rates are supported for each channel, I think it's 96/24bit PCM audio.

 

In any case, I can go into my setup menu and select Multichannel LPCM for HDMI output and I can select either 6 channels or 8 channels.

 

I have no way to test it until I get my Realiser. I don't have a 5.1 or 7.1 system.

 

-Darin

If that works, that's probably what I'll be using too (I don't have a home theater also). Please keep us informed... :)