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Long awaited Smyth SVS Realiser NOW AVAILABLE FOR PURCHASE - Page 109

post #1621 of 2721
@LexLex:

I know I can get access to a couple great 2 channel setups in NYC (unfortunately I used to have a great one that I LOVED, and really wish I had measurements of it, but sold all of that equipment when we moved apartments a year ago hence the focus on headphones now due to WAF/space factor).

There are one or two dealers in NYC that have very nice HT setups (in one case if my memory serves probably has a little better transparency/detail, but room treatment /acoustics/imaging not as well defined; the latter of which though I'm assuming is more important for measurements). If we can arrange some time with them late one day / after hours perhaps we can get some measurements taken for a few of us in NY and give them a demo of the system/experience as well.

Btw, I know that Lorr doesn't check the main company email as frequently. He has mentioned that if he's in NYC (I don't know if he's in town for next weekend's audio show or not), he's happy to arrange measurements. We'd get some scale economics by having a few of us do it at once at a studio if we're buying time, otherwise we can try to find a willing dealer. The one dealer I've worked a lot with in the city does only 2 ch systems and so while I've spent time at places like Innovative Audio and Lyric Hifi which would be fun to have access to I don't have a client relationship (but they may be open to it, and perhaps use it as a way to evaluate the product).
post #1622 of 2721
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnaud View Post

Thanks for the replies so far, very useful. In regard to the realizer processing at 24/48, this is just speculation on my part sorry! Reason is I don't think there's a limitation at 48kHz for an optical connection (a mac can at least output 24/88 and I think 24/96 through the optical out). If the PRIR is 3MB in size, it seems plausible it is acquired at 48kHz sample rate. Also, considering the realiser is doing 8 channels processing in real time, 24/48 sounds more realistic than 24/192 for instance.

In regards to LA, I have a business trip scheduled in socal at the end of june, hence the discussion... For 2.0, I have a paradize store here in Tokyo (Dynamic Audio) but am not sure they would accomodate...

Edit: I was checking the user manual, and taking a guess at the PRIR file resolution, it would seem like 16/44.1 based on the recorded data:
- number of signals (impulse responses): 6 speakers (5.1) x 2 ears x 3 headings (0, +/-30 deg.) = 36
- number of bytes: 2 (16 bits)
- number of samples per signal: 1 second duration (it says 850ms worth of reverb can be captured, I assume the remaining 150ms could be an exponential decay window) x 44100 (44.1kHz sample rate) = 44100
- total size in bytes: ( 36 * 2 * 44100 ) / 1024^2 = 3MB. The last .1 MB being for headers and such

Arnaud - checked with Lorr and confirmed that while the unit can accept up to 24/192 via HDMI, all of the processing in the digital domain and the digital output (Toslink) is done at 24/48.
post #1623 of 2721
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnaud View Post

Thanks for the replies so far, very useful. In regard to the realizer processing at 24/48, this is just speculation on my part sorry! Reason is I don't think there's a limitation at 48kHz for an optical connection (a mac can at least output 24/88 and I think 24/96 through the optical out).


The Realiser also has the option of a HDMI pass through. HDMI in/HDMI out. I will be using this option when I get the PSAudio Perfectwave DAC.

 

Do we know what sample the output will be with HDMI?

 


Edited by HDMan - 4/11/12 at 1:10pm
post #1624 of 2721
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMan View Post


The Realiser also has the option of a HDMI pass through. HDMI in/HDMI out. I will be using this option when I get the PSAudio Perfectwave DAC.

 

Do we know what sample the output will be with HDMI?

 



I believe the pass through is for video and or unprocessed pcm.  I don't believe it will do what you want.  Furthermore, the PWD only accepts HDMI from the Perfect wave transport as far as I know.  

post #1625 of 2721


I PMed you. happy_face1.gif

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by silverlight View Post

@LexLex:
I know I can get access to a couple great 2 channel setups in NYC (unfortunately I used to have a great one that I LOVED, and really wish I had measurements of it, but sold all of that equipment when we moved apartments a year ago hence the focus on headphones now due to WAF/space factor).
There are one or two dealers in NYC that have very nice HT setups (in one case if my memory serves probably has a little better transparency/detail, but room treatment /acoustics/imaging not as well defined; the latter of which though I'm assuming is more important for measurements). If we can arrange some time with them late one day / after hours perhaps we can get some measurements taken for a few of us in NY and give them a demo of the system/experience as well.
Btw, I know that Lorr doesn't check the main company email as frequently. He has mentioned that if he's in NYC (I don't know if he's in town for next weekend's audio show or not), he's happy to arrange measurements. We'd get some scale economics by having a few of us do it at once at a studio if we're buying time, otherwise we can try to find a willing dealer. The one dealer I've worked a lot with in the city does only 2 ch systems and so while I've spent time at places like Innovative Audio and Lyric Hifi which would be fun to have access to I don't have a client relationship (but they may be open to it, and perhaps use it as a way to evaluate the product).


 

post #1626 of 2721
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverlight View Post

Arnaud - checked with Lorr and confirmed that while the unit can accept up to 24/192 via HDMI, all of the processing in the digital domain and the digital output (Toslink) is done at 24/48.

I see, many thanks for this!
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMan View Post

The Realiser also has the option of a HDMI pass through. HDMI in/HDMI out. I will be using this option when I get the PSAudio Perfectwave DAC.

 

Do we know what sample the output will be with HDMI?

 


Not sure the point of this, a passthrough is supposed to be just that: passing through... There won't be any processing done whatsoever on this HDMI signal...
post #1627 of 2721
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnaud View Post


I see, many thanks for this!
Not sure the point of this, a passthrough is supposed to be just that: passing through... There won't be any processing done whatsoever on this HDMI signal...


Ah ok, I was thinking it was still going to process the signal, toshlink it is then.

 

post #1628 of 2721
Thread Starter 

Had an opportunity to stop by Smyth's office in Camarillo today, where I had an opportunity to try out two things I'd not sampled before with the gracious and much appreciated assistance of Lorr (many thanks to him, as always, ... a gentleman and a scholar):

 

(a) HDMI-enabled Realiser, with Chapter 3 of "House of Flying Daggers" (stones and steel drum sequence) BluRay as the test reference (it's DD5.1, not DTS-HDMA), and

 

(b) tactile "shaker" chair, same scene

 

Additional equipment was my own headphone setup that I brought with me (Omega-1, SRM-007tii, and Audio-GD NFB9 DAC feeding through XLR to amp).  And of course I also listened to the same scene through the real loudspeakers in the room, as the "control".

 

The takeaway:

 

(1) HDMI-enabled Realiser is DEFINITELY superior to the analog-fed connection method which involves both D-to-A (in player or AVR) and A-to-D (in Realiser) conversions before even starting the digital SVS processing.  In my headphones it seemed to be "clearer", with more precise directional cues as the stones flew all around the room hitting drums and falling to the marble floor.  Same with the "clarity" of the saucer sliced by the sword shattering it into many pieces with them all falling to the floor making that wonderful sound of broken glass hitting a marble floor.

 

While at Smyth that was my visceral impression, and when I got back home and just to double-check played the same scene on my own Realiser with its analog feed ,I really confirmed for myself what I had already concluded: noticeably superior results are achieved with HDMI-delivered LPCM digital input to the Realiser than via analog.  Is it "huge"? No.  Is it discernible? Very definitely yes.  Is HDMI the clear winner?  Yes.  Is it worth having?  Absolutely.

 

(2) The "shaker" chair is no substitute for the feeling of room air hitting your body from a sub-woofer.  Does it really enhance the Realiser experience?  I don't really think so, at least that was my subjective opinion.  Is it better than nothing?  Perhaps, but maybe not.  Is it a necessity?  No.  Is it worth lusting after?  Not for me, anyway.

 

 

One more comment...

 

This is actually the first time I'd played that Chapter 3 "reference" clip since acquiring my NFB9 and SRM-007tii, and converting to straight XLR from the DAC to the amp (with no more DBX EQ on an RCA path).  In the past, trying to turn up the volume for this scene on either the Realiser and/or my Yamaha RX-V863 while (a) still not causing input clipping (red light) on the Realiser, and (b) still not causing "protective shutdown" by the Yamaha from output overload has never been successful.  I've just not been able to play it as loud as I wanted.

 

Well tonight, because of the increased output level on the XLR path from DAC to amp I was able to keep the Yamaha volume at +0, and my standard Realiser volume of -10, the DAC volume at 46 (which is my "standard setting" where I leave it permanently set for everything), and the SRM007 volume at "2 o'clock" which again is my standard setting.  And yet, the sound was stunningly loud and clear, and no clipping or protective shutdown occurred.

 

So once again, I marvel at the benefits of this external DAC approach with XLR cables to the Stax amp.

post #1629 of 2721
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsperber View Post


(2) The "shaker" chair is no substitute for the feeling of room air hitting your body from a sub-woofer.  Does it really enhance the Realiser experience?  I don't really think so, at least that was my subjective opinion.  Is it better than nothing?  Perhaps, but maybe not.  Is it a necessity?  No.  Is it worth lusting after?  Not for me, anyway.



I got to disagree with this point from my own experience owning a shaker. There are shakers and tactile transducers, i own the later. The effects with the Crowson Tactile Transducer are definitely worth the effort to set up, it really add's another dimension of realism to the 7.1 experience. The shakers can be used in conjuction with subwoofers, although the air in the room does not move, still you get wonderful effects through the chair, like deep 20hz and realistic midrange. It was something that took some days of fine tuning/listening and re-tuning to get right, one session would really only give you a glimpse of the potential, it really needs to be intergrated with personal preferences tuned to the listener.

post #1630 of 2721
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverlight View Post

...
This unit is WAY underappreciated IMO.


x2.  I couldn't agree with you more. Other changes to my system would be incremental at best.

 

The primary difficulty I have with my Realiser is exhibiting restraint when describing the degree of change that one experiences when listening to a Realiser/SR-009 system.  I've always enjoyed the imaging, soundstage and depth of a good 2-channel system.  The Realiser allows me to enjoy the same experience now with headphones.  In my mind, the speed, detail and transparency of the SR-009 make it the perfect match for the DSP processing performed by the Realiser.  The overall listening experience is enhance by the increased resolution afforded by SR-009.  The added detail makes the experience more believable, as you begin to listen more to the environment in which the PRIR measurements were taken, than to the headphones themselves.  All of the attributes used to describe the sonic characteristics of the SR-009 fall by the wayside, as you focus on the sound of the system playing, and the interaction of the speakers with the sonic characteristics of the room itself.  With the Realiser, the SR-009 become secondary, as you become enveloped by the external three dimensional presentation of the measured environment (This external 3-D presentation overcomes my primary objection to the headphone listening which is the in-head soundstage experience common to virtually all headphones).  I believe the chameleon like quality exhibited by the SR-009 is a testament to the accuracy of the transducers.  The accuracy of the SR-009, combined with the DSP processing capabilities of the Realiser, make for a truly remarkable experience, and although the effect may not be 100% accurate, given the proper measurements and recording, the experience can be quite satisfying.

The two hurdles to wider adoption by the headphone community are cost and complexity.  But I'm hopeful that, as with most products, as newer generations become available, each generation will become more affordable, which will of course speed wider adoption.  Complexity will remain an issue due to the overall complexity and measurement requirements of the product itself.  But it is the measurement aspect of the Realiser that sets it apart for other competing virtualization technologies like Dolby Headphone or Isone Pro.  This is not a consumer friendly plug-and-play device.  Setting up the Realiser for your particular system and acquiring a good PRIR measurement does require effort.  But for those willing to take the time to properly setup and configure a system, be prepared for a revolutionary (not evolutionary) change in the way you experience headphones.

My only caveat is you must experience the system first hand to fully understand the capabilities of the Realiser.

 

 

post #1631 of 2721

 

Quote:
The Realiser also has the option of a HDMI pass through. HDMI in/HDMI out. I will be using this option when I get the PSAudio Perfectwave DAC.

 

Last I checked, the PS Audio products do two channel I2S over HDMI, not PCM. I2S is not part of the HDMI standard.

post #1632 of 2721

 

Quote:

I'd like to have experienced Smyth personnel  (or anyone capable) making my PRIR on a good room in NYC, but unfortunately it seems it's not gonna happen

 

I decided to postpone my Realizer purchase for a while, but when I was looking into it I talked to a NYC dealer (Sensorium AVR) who said he could do the calibration on their "250K showroom system." It seems like a first rate system, though I'm not familiar with the brand of speakers (and I forget what they are now). If Lorr was in town to do calibrations and a group of us could rent a studio, I'd probably go ahead and buy a Realizer and join in as one of my main concerns was getting a calibration in a great room from someone experienced at doing it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by VandyMan - 4/12/12 at 11:05am
post #1633 of 2721
Quote:
Originally Posted by VandyMan View Post

 

 

Last I checked, the PS Audio products do two channel I2S over HDMI, not PCM. I2S is not part of the HDMI standard.


Toshlink it is.

 

post #1634 of 2721
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMan View Post



I got to disagree with this point from my own experience owning a shaker. There are shakers and tactile transducers, i own the later. The effects with the Crowson Tactile Transducer are definitely worth the effort to set up, it really add's another dimension of realism to the 7.1 experience. The shakers can be used in conjuction with subwoofers, although the air in the room does not move, still you get wonderful effects through the chair, like deep 20hz and realistic midrange. It was something that took some days of fine tuning/listening and re-tuning to get right, one session would really only give you a glimpse of the potential, it really needs to be intergrated with personal preferences tuned to the listener.



I also own Crowson tactile transducers.  I think they add that extra dimension that helps complete the illusion.  They're much more convincing if you have them set up more subtly and on an isolation platform (i.e. they're attached to the bottom of a raised platform, with the chair(s) / sofa resting on them), vs. having them directly coupled to a chair. 

 

It's very easy to overcrank the transducers for that amusement park like fun, but it's quite unrealistic.  I do have a separate preset for the Tactile output cranked up 100% compared to my more reference level set up.  Namely for fun, and video games.  But I don't use that setting all that often.

 

-Ed


Edited by Edwood - 4/12/12 at 1:24pm
post #1635 of 2721


Thanks VandyMan, I was aware of Sensorium but hadn't contacted them yet. Soon to become a new Realiser owner! L3000.gif

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by VandyMan View Post

 

 

I decided to postpone my Realizer purchase for a while, but when I was looking into it I talked to a NYC dealer (Sensorium AVR) who said he could do the calibration on their "250K showroom system." It seems like a first rate system, though I'm not familiar with the brand of speakers (and I forget what they are now). If Lorr was in town to do calibrations and a group of us could rent a studio, I'd probably go ahead and buy a Realizer and join in as one of my main concerns was getting a calibration in a great room from someone experienced at doing it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

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