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Yes Virgina, There is a difference in USB cables - Page 13

post #181 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by 00940 View Post

Quote:

Originally Posted by ex0du5 View Post

Why do they work with such small buffers? There's no reason, other than to save costs..

 

My Maverick Audio D1 DAC is unusable on the USB output due to an apparent lack of buffering, as it will actually skip/crackle from time to time. That is what you might expect from a bad or unbuffered digital stream, gaps in the sound. You won't get slightly degraded sound quality. Much like a bad HDMI signal will result in blank screens or dropouts, not a slightly worse picture.

 


Die area for a FIFO is scarce when your usb receiver must fit into a small smd package. But yes, cost is a big deal.

 

The unbuffered stream has another consequence: in isochronous USB audio, the output clock is derivated from the frequency at which the packets arrive (by a PLL). Some usb receivers are absolutly awul at that : see for example: http://www.diyhifi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1360
 

 

Edit: the PCM2707 are isochronous receivers. However their jitter is low  enough(measured at 2 or 3ns from memory) and TI spact system is good enough not to get interruptions. So I just used that followed by a SRC4192, which clears up things nicely (see : http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/46413-any-feedback-new-cs8421-high-res-asrc.html#post528312  , according to the same Bruno Putzeys the SRC4192 will stay in "narrow mode" for such low amounts of jitter).



 But we have to keep things in check here...on this forum, we're talking about DACs that are hundreds of dollars. Cost should not be an issue in those cases. This should be more of an issue for integrated DACs, such as those that are housed in active speakers (Corsair SP2000, or B&W PC speakers).

post #182 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tgun5 View Post
[SNIP]


I can imagine that the Polestar and Poiema could be better cables. I may try one of them at a later date. For the meantime, with a modest USB like the DAC Magic and speakers like the Audioengine A5’s, the UltraViolet is a nice cable that isn’t overkill by price.



FYI – I purchased the cable from Galen Carol online and was very pleased with their service. They have the cable in stock and discounted.

Thanks for the rec. As fun or gratifying as it sounds, I can't quite see spending $295-1295 for a Locus USB cable [not saying it might not make a difference, just saying I am having a tough time justifying that dollar allocation], so this  is a welcome suggestion. Galen Carol very pleasant, prompt, and professional.

 

 

 

 

post #183 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by googleborg View Post

i think it might be a form of self-worth or something, supreme confidence in themselves and their abilities to hear things, and it's always men, oddly enough, so perhaps some kind of aspergers/OCD  obsessive thought processes, basically weaknesses in peoples/the male characters that force them to buy such things to ease a kind of existential pain?  /ramble

 



I suspect you are on to something.

 

The irony of the "golden ears" is that their belief that they are immune to auto-suggestion, makes them, probably, extremely susceptible to auto-suggestion.

 

The purveyors of the magic cables offer them an exclusive feeling that they are amongst the higher elite who can hear the, oh so subtle, but vital, differences between the £1,000 cables and the ordinary cables that fools like me think are just as good.

post #184 of 199

Back to the WireWorld Ultraviolet. FWIW, I discovered when looking at, and then ordering an Audiphilleo Model 1 USB-S/PDIF converter, that they include an Ultraviolet cable with their unit. 

 

post #185 of 199

All those dollars spent on USB cables would probably be better spent here: http://www.circuitsathome.com/products-page/usb-interfaces/

 

Just saying  ;)

post #186 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by 00940 View Post

All those dollars spent on USB cables would probably be better spent here: http://www.circuitsathome.com/products-page/usb-interfaces/

 

Just saying  ;)

Unless I am misunderstanding the purpose of the isolator board, I believe it would defeat the purpose of all the bus-powered USB-S/PDIF asynchronous bridges.

 

Just saying. ;-)
 

Anyway, we were having a discussion over on one of the Pure Music threads that is fairly interesting. Just because someone cannot hear the difference between cables—and I am not someone who claims he can—does not mean there are not differences. The Church of Science and the Church of Audibility are filled with their respective zealots. As opposed to making fun of people who may or may not have golden ears, and who think they can hear the difference, and who may have the wallet to put their money where their eardrums are, I suggest an open mind would say instead: "I cannot hear the difference, but I acknowledge it does not mean you cannot." As a wiser head once said, "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." I know electrical engineers on both sides of this debate; what does that tell me? Tells me the answer may not be known.

 

Remember "perfect sound forever"?

post #187 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pale Rider View Post

. Just because someone cannot hear the difference between cables—and I am not someone who claims he can—does not mean there are not differences.
 
There are measurable differences between cables on the most relevant audio parameters but they are pretty small in my experience to date, small enough to be high unlikely to be audible according to what we know from 100 years of psychophysics research. That said you can make any cable audibly different if you want to but you have to cheat, but  a cable so audibly different will certainly be measurably very different. But the issue is easier than that to resolve. Absolutely nobody to date anywhere in the world has ever demonstrated a reliable ability to detect a difference betwen two ordinary analog cables carrying line level signals identity unknown. That does not mean it is wholly impossible but it does not represent a rational reason for expecting any cable to actually be different. Being rational I would wait for rather better evidence...
 
The Church of Science and the Church of Audibility are filled with their respective zealots. As opposed to making fun of people who may or may not have golden ears, and who think they can hear the difference, and who may have the wallet to put their money where their eardrums are, I suggest an open mind would say instead: "I cannot hear the difference, but I acknowledge it does not mean you cannot." As a wiser head once said, "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." I know electrical engineers on both sides of this debate; what does that tell me? Tells me the answer may not be known.

 

post #188 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pale Rider View Post

Anyway, we were having a discussion over on one of the Pure Music threads that is fairly interesting. Just because someone cannot hear the difference between cables—and I am not someone who claims he can—does not mean there are not differences. The Church of Science and the Church of Audibility are filled with their respective zealots. As opposed to making fun of people who may or may not have golden ears, and who think they can hear the difference, and who may have the wallet to put their money where their eardrums are, I suggest an open mind would say instead: "I cannot hear the difference, but I acknowledge it does not mean you cannot." As a wiser head once said, "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." I know electrical engineers on both sides of this debate; what does that tell me? Tells me the answer may not be known.


Nobody is making fun of people who can hear the differences.

 

The people claiming to hear the differences can please demonstrate this in blind ABX tests.

 

People who endlessly claim to hear all kinds of differences but only can do so as long as they know which cable is which are rather difficult to take seriously :)

post #189 of 199


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by p a t r i c k View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by Pale Rider View Post

Anyway, we were having a discussion over on one of the Pure Music threads that is fairly interesting. Just because someone cannot hear the difference between cables—and I am not someone who claims he can—does not mean there are not differences. The Church of Science and the Church of Audibility are filled with their respective zealots. As opposed to making fun of people who may or may not have golden ears, and who think they can hear the difference, and who may have the wallet to put their money where their eardrums are, I suggest an open mind would say instead: "I cannot hear the difference, but I acknowledge it does not mean you cannot." As a wiser head once said, "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." I know electrical engineers on both sides of this debate; what does that tell me? Tells me the answer may not be known.


Nobody is making fun of people who can hear the differences.

 

The people claiming to hear the differences can please demonstrate this in blind ABX tests.

 

People who endlessly claim to hear all kinds of differences but only can do so as long as they know which cable is which are rather difficult to take seriously :)


Exactly. The debate is over why some hear a difference and why some do not. As Nick_Charles and others have shown, the difference is highly unlikely to be in the cable itself.

post #190 of 199

What cable should I get to make the 1s and 0s transfer better. I think my optical cable might be taking some of the 1s and making them 0s, and my music quality is suffering rolleyes.gif

post #191 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by SalsaPodio View Post

What cable should I get to make the 1s and 0s transfer better. I think my optical cable might be taking some of the 1s and making them 0s, and my music quality is suffering rolleyes.gif


Your 1s are fine, but what your optical cable is doing is flattening out the tops of the 0s so they look more like the letter 'O' than zeros.

This being the case, you've probably noticed that your musical sound signature has almost imperceptibly degenerated, relative to the sound signature of a coaxial connection from the same gear.  Fortunately, there is a fix for this problem, and if you do a search you will find it.

 

USG

post #192 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by upstateguy View Post




Your 1s are fine, but what your optical cable is doing is flattening out the tops of the 0s so they look more like the letter 'O' than zeros.

This being the case, you've probably noticed that your musical sound signature has almost imperceptibly degenerated, relative to the sound signature of a coaxial connection from the same gear.  Fortunately, there is a fix for this problem, and if you do a search you will find it.

 

USG



Oh this makes a lot of sense! Thanks! 

post #193 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_h View Post

Has anyone ABX'd 1800's Snake Oil?

Best thing I have ever read here...bravo!

post #194 of 199

You know what would be interesting, stop looking at the USB cable with an audio perspective and look at it from a PC perspective. Make a USB 3.0 cable using silver and send data to an external storage device as a speed test. Compare it with an average cable. If the average speed over a hundred tests changed, then we know this isn't snake oil. If it increased with the silver by about 5 percent or so, then it is worth it. 

post #195 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tjj226 Angel View Post

You know what would be interesting, stop looking at the USB cable with an audio perspective and look at it from a PC perspective. Make a USB 3.0 cable using silver and send data to an external storage device as a speed test. Compare it with an average cable. If the average speed over a hundred tests changed, then we know this isn't snake oil. If it increased with the silver by about 5 percent or so, then it is worth it. 

Exactley. I remember seeing an article on SATA cables once where they chained a 3 or 4 together over 9ft distance, creased the cables with 90 degree kinks, and even used 8 year old cables (without 6gb/s distinction) on a 6gb/s drive, and guess what? Zero speed difference! So how does a company have the gaul to market something like this??: http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2012/03/26/wiredream-silver-sata/1 I don't understand how the regular rules for computers, rules that are implemented daily in science, medical, and engineering research/simulation with far greater consequences for error and much greater complexity, somehow become tossed out the window when people start dealing with audio.   


Edited by Strangelove424 - 1/9/13 at 8:11pm
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