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Yes Virgina, There is a difference in USB cables

post #1 of 199
Thread Starter 
After 100 or so hours of burn-in time, I am now prepared to give some impressions on the new Wireworld Ultraviolet USB cable . If you are one that doesn’t believe in equipment or cable burn-in, you might as well just stop here, for I’m not looking for an argument on whether it’s real.

I was prepared to spend the bucks and try either a Poiema R-V3 or Locus PoleStar, and after numerous evenings reading every blog I could find on each, I ran across an inexpensive alternative, the UltaViolet ($55). Not much is written about the Ultraviolet, but Wireworld has made some nice cables in the past, and for the price? – I’ll give it a try. I had pretty much decided that I wasn’t interested in the Kimber USB, as it had not overly impressed many reviewers. By that, I mean that most found it to be a just a casual improvement.

Now I can’t definitively say that the Wireworld is dramatically better than the Kimber or how it compares to its more expensive counterparts, I haven’t tried them. I can say that the UltraViolet does make a nice improvement in detail retrieval and musicality over stock USB cables. It sounds less edgy and has no hint of brightness, like all the stock USB cables I’ve tried. It also has better left to right balance and places instruments in the soundstage much more accurately. For the money, it is a steal.

I would have to deduct that it is superior to the Kimber from what I’ve read. It is better than just a “casual” improvement and considering the price, a must buy component.

I can imagine that the Polestar and Poiema could be better cables. I may try one of them at a later date. For the meantime, with a modest USB like the DAC Magic and speakers like the Audioengine A5’s, the UltraViolet is a nice cable that isn’t overkill by price.

FYI – I purchased the cable from Galen Carol online and was very pleased with their service. They have the cable in stock and discounted.
post #2 of 199
Pardon my ignorance here, but isn't the data transferred through a USB cable digital, and therefore less susceptible to signal fluctuations? Also, doesn't USB use a checksum (CRC) for the data packets to reduce errors?
post #3 of 199
Thread Starter 
I can discuss speaker wire or amplifier design with you with some intelligence. I am not a student of the digital realm and have far less an understanding of it. For this reason, I have no preconcieved ideas involving it. When companies like Poeima, Kimber, and Wireworld proport to have made improvements in an area I have less of an understanding about, I don't let my ignorance stand in the way of trying something new. This is, after all, what a hobby is all about. I stand by what I hear, and this cable makes a nice improvement in sound - for whatever reason.
post #4 of 199
USB data is packeted and CRC'd for data integrity (Universal Serial Bus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia will give a relatively good understanding of what that means), any difference in cable is going to be in build quality and maximum length.

If they look nice and are built well that is a good reason to buy the cable, anything further is just misinformation.
post #5 of 199
The maximum length of a standard USB cable is 5.0 meters (16.4 ft). The primary reason for this limit is the maximum allowed round-trip delay of about 1500 ns. If a USB device does not answer to host commands within the allowed time, the host considers the command to be lost. When adding up the USB device response time, delays from using the maximum number of hubs, and delays from the connecting cables, the maximum acceptable delay per cable turns out to be 26 ns.[13] The USB 2.0 specification requires cable delay to be less than 5.2 ns per meter (which is close to the maximum achievable speed for standard copper cable).[14] This allows for a 5 meter cable.

The silver in the design should allow this cable to transfer signals faster, suprassing the USB spec'd 5.2ns (almost the max for copper according to wiki) maximum signal transfer delay. I think this has more to do with the cables ability to meet USB spec while achieving greater length. I imagine a 90-Ohm twisted pair cable with silver plated conductor wire should achieve the same result.
post #6 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewZander View Post
Pardon my ignorance here, but isn't the data transferred through a USB cable digital, and therefore less susceptible to signal fluctuations? Also, doesn't USB use a checksum (CRC) for the data packets to reduce errors?
more like impervious, but yes you are correct

@ logistics:
the differences you're talking about are real, but you need to consider that A) they would be very slight (at best) and B) would not improve performance, they would simply "exceed" specification (which means things would run exactly as they should, no better or worse)

@predator:
I agree, basically the only thing you're buying here is fancy pants looks, any claims of better performance or higher quality are at worst outright lies, and at best, very shady marketing

oh, and tgun, before you flame me, just because you "don't know about it" doesn't mean you're suddenly an authority based on subjective claims (ignorance does not absolve fact), I'd actually be LESS inclined to listen to you based on your outright admission of zero knowledge
post #7 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tgun5 View Post
I don't let my ignorance stand in the way of trying something new.
Am I the only one who fell out of my chair?

The 1800's didn't have fancied USB cables. They had do-it-all tonics. Cured baldness, obesity, blindness, deafness, sore throats, etc.



Of course I bring this up just to be jealous of the rich people who can afford superior high fidelity usb cables.
post #8 of 199
When will people learn to read before they talk out of their ass! No, "standard" USB Audio does not use checksums or any other error detection or correction and yes, as are all data transfer methods, it requires cable standards to be met (and a lot of "generic" or "no-name brand" cables do not).
post #9 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tgun5 View Post
I am now prepared to give some impressions on the new Wireworld Ultraviolet USB cable . If you are one that doesn’t believe in equipment or cable burn-in, you might as well just stop here, for I’m not looking for an argument on whether it’s real.
I see the religious zealots have come out of the Church of Science to crap on another thread. Please ignore their rude behavior. I'll take your impression over their sanctimonious behavior any day. If I want to hear these zealots preach I'll attend their church aka sound science.

It is nice to see a head-fier actually want to make their own decisions based on what they hear. Lately, there seems to be far too little of that. You researched the topic, entered with an open mind and listened. You heard a difference. Not a small difference based on your report. Great experiment and I would encourage you to continue to trust your ears.

I'm always reminded that we all hear differently when my wife listens to my gear. She will talk about subtle differences when changing gear or headphones. They are not subtle to me. There are clear and distinct differences. No, I don't have golden ears and I don't make changes for subtle differences.

At the end of the day you have to listen to your system and be happy with it. Thank you for your impressions on the Wireworld USB cable.
post #10 of 199
Has anyone used the new Wire World Ultraviolet USB? | Computer Audiophile
post #11 of 199
regardless of personal opinion, signaling and clocking is the responsibility of software, and at the very worst scenario, jitter is roughly 1 sample in either direction, and the cables will either transfer the data as per spec, or will not work, there is no "kinda pregnant" in this implementation
post #12 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenAngel View Post
When will people learn to read before they talk out of their ass! No, "standard" USB Audio does not use checksums or any other error detection or correction and yes, as are all data transfer methods, it requires cable standards to be met (and a lot of "generic" or "no-name brand" cables do not).
This is what I thought as well, there is only one way communication and part of that is timming info that can be altered or damaged. Few 0's here and a few 1's there with no correction equals reduced signal quality.
post #13 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by obobskivich View Post
regardless of personal opinion, signaling and clocking is the responsibility of software, and at the very worst scenario, jitter is roughly 1 sample in either direction, and the cables will either transfer the data as per spec, or will not work, there is no "kinda pregnant" in this implementation
Sorry buddy, but it's hardware, not software that does the clocking.

Now if we only moved away from this REALLY OLD technology of relying on USB Audio 1.1 and made a USB streaming audio standard that had proper implemented data correction, we would not need to worry about this at all! 0% difference in digital cables, absolutely none! Until then, we're all left up to funky "kinda" different cables. And it's not "1 sample off", it's "constantly a little off what it should be" and as all audiophiles know, we nitpick like crazy over stupid little things that the rest of our systems (including our ears) usually have a hard time catching up to.
post #14 of 199
it isn't one way signaling, there is a provision for return data (how else would drivers load? and you wanna tell me is "pure one way" ), and clocking is entirely dependant on software implementation, excepting asycrhonous (which, you could uh, generate via clock synthesis, which is microcontroller operated -> software, and if you're going hardware, thats a crystal, which is pretty accurate if designed properly)

the sampling differences are thus locked to software (in terms of, the digital data input), and will be VERY minor (and this is all sacked to the Tx/Rx hardware, not the cable), in other words, while differences may or may not exist, they are inherently not "correctable" by the cable (it won't add or subtract bits), the cable will send whats passed to it, if the source is "lesser" (this is debatable again, as it must at least meet standards, exceeding them is entirely possible, but to what effect this would have, is debatable (a Ferrari and a Pinto can both 65mph on the highway, who cares what else they can do )) the "lesser" is passed along (again, the cable must meet spec, so it either will pass what its handed, or it won't, if it doesn't, you get nothing, not "clock jitter" due to a cable or some such nonsense)

point being: the differences are bound to software inherently (and as a result, hardware), but neither of these are able to be influenced by a cable, it simply will not "correct" or "compensate" for jitter or clock variations, if the jitter already exists, it stays, if it didn't exist, it isn't added
post #15 of 199
If I had a 200 MHz oscilloscope I'd make a nice pop up book for you folk showing how USB would work just fine with any cable. Of course you guys can afford such equipment, but no, you spend it on bling cables for DIGITAL transfer.

I really need to get into the cable business. Churn them out in China for $0.03 each and sell them for $99.99 because they glow and have gold on them. Ok if not snake oil, ever hear of placebo?

It's amusing how people with hair loss want to feel hip by spending so much on audio and think their USB cable deserves a shrine. To the people who market such products, well played sirs. An inexpensive product that you can make a lot of money on. If such a product exists it must mean the International Cable Bureau throughly investigated in their product and happily renewed their cabling manufacturing permit. Or maybe it's just because they work and there's no law against overcharging by factors hundreds. It's a good thing ICB is out there to shut down those phonies with improper cables. I'm obviously a troll because I have above average hearing for my early 20's and don't have a triple digit age and hair color and quantity loss.

When I'm 247 I'm going to outdo you all by buying a 70 trillion dollar whittled stick.
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