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Audio-gd Phoenix balanced headphone amp. - Page 7

post #91 of 3344
Thanx Dro! you're the man!
post #92 of 3344
It is crazy that the lengths of these threads is increasing so fast. People really seem to be interested in audio-gd. I just found out about them in early february. Im buying a compass soon too(few days i think). Im really excited.
post #93 of 3344
Also just saw the pics, and the Panther Power Amp
post #94 of 3344
I just asked Kingwa about the differences between the Phoenix and the C3 and C8 preamps. He said the sound quality of the Phoenix would be the same as the C3. The differences are that the Phoenix also has headphone outputs and has a different case design which may not look as appropriate amongst other large audio components in a speaker setup. That doesn't bother me at all. Phoenix is cheaper than the C3 and has headphone outputs. That's like getting a balanced headamp for free with a preamp. I think Phoenix is going to be my new preamp.

Kingwa also confirmed that the Phoenix will be available in silver/black.

For those interested, between the C3 and C8, Kingwa said the amp module is the same. The power supply is different, but also to note that the C8 power supply runs quite hot at 60C which is something to consider if you're looking to buy one.
post #95 of 3344
Glad to see the chassis color choice ! Black is my favorite for Audio-gd stuff. IMO at least, others mileage may vary.

Peete.
post #96 of 3344
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pricklely Peete View Post
Glad to see the chassis color choice ! Black is my favorite for Audio-gd stuff. IMO at least, others mileage may vary.

Peete.
Yup, looks stylish (and slightly menacing) and combines well with the subtle blue led.
post #97 of 3344
1. So what happened to the C-2D? I thought that was truly balanced?

2. I hope Kingwa makes the fuses replaceable by the enduser. I really dont want to have to send my unit back if a fuse ever blows. Also, I want to try out some audiophile fuses
post #98 of 3344
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorlac View Post
1. So what happened to the C-2D? I thought that was truly balanced?
The C-2D may have been balanced, but only had single ended output. I think it was discontinued because Kingwa believes he can make something better now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorlac View Post
2. I hope Kingwa makes the fuses replaceable by the enduser. I really dont want to have to send my unit back if a fuse ever blows. Also, I want to try out some audiophile fuses
Apparently the Audio-gd fuse is designed in such a way that something needs to go very wrong for a long time before it will really blow. Kingwa has said that in such a case, the unit needs to be returned to be repaired. But perhaps with decent DIY skills and some helpful hints from Kingwa, you could also do it yourself.
I don't think replacing it with a different fuse is an easy option though. (Keep in mind that Kingwa pays a lot of attention to creating a good power supply for his equipment, so I don't actually think it's easy to improve on it or the fuse it has.)
post #99 of 3344
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pricklely Peete View Post
It does and thanks for those further details......

I'll just add that the CAST output from the RE1 to the CAST input on the Phoenix should negate any influence (positive or negative) cabling may have on the sound vs regular IC's be it XLR or SE'ed between source and amp. The advantage is keeping the signal in the current domain and having the Phoenix do the I/V conversion at it's output stage (to the headphones).

A balanced system to me means an entire chain from source to amp to cans. Feeding the Phoenix a SE'ed source signal is, in my mind, a half measure. Obviously the perfect companion to this amp would be the RE1, barring that a fully differential source of some type would be the next best thing for it. IMO at least.

Peete.
I absolutely agree. Using CAST output from DAC to amp is the way to go (even though I have never heard such a setup) since it's a technically superior method of transferring signal between equipment when compared to any other connection type. I'd love to hear a fully balanced CAST connected headphone setup!

I also agree that a fully balanced system means the entire system is of a balanced nature. This would obviously be ideal but will be quite costly in the end.

I've often wondered (and this may be dependent on the particular DAC you are using) if the dual DAC outputs per channel of a balanced DAC are fused together when output through a single-ended connection like RCA. We know that the Phoenix is capable of splitting a single-ended connection among the two amps per channel, but will a balanced DAC make use of all four DAC sections when connected through a single-ended RCA output? If not, then it would make sense to purchase the Phoenix first and then a balanced DAC like Reference 1 later. I only mention this because I believe the Phoenix/Reference 1 combo is probably going to be the dream system of many, however, will be quite expensive. For those looking to upgrade in increments it makes sense to go with the Phoenix first (technically speaking as I know it hasn't been released yet) if running a balanced DAC to a single-ended amp will not make use of all four DAC sections.

If anyone knows whether or not the Ref 1 makes use of all four DAC sections when output through RCA please chime in!

By the way Zorlac, to answer your question about the C-2D. I believe the C-2D is an older headphone amp that wasn't marketed in North America. Also, from the pictures I have seen it looks like the C-2D accepts balanced input but only offers a single-ended TRS output on the front. I'm also pretty sure that the Phoenix will be superior to the C-2D.

Here's the link to the pictures.

C-2D Savely Arrived in Australia[ºÎÇ컪DIY¼¼ÊõÂÛ̳]
post #100 of 3344
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drosera View Post
The C-2D may have been balanced, but only had single ended output. I think it was discontinued because Kingwa believes he can make something better now.
Looks like you beat me to it
post #101 of 3344
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamjames37 View Post
I've often wondered (and this may be dependent on the particular DAC you are using) if the dual DAC outputs per channel of a balanced DAC are fused together when output through a single-ended connection like RCA. We know that the Phoenix is capable of splitting a single-ended connection among the two amps per channel, but will a balanced DAC make use of all four DAC sections when connected through a single-ended RCA output? If not, then it would make sense to purchase the Phoenix first and then a balanced DAC like Reference 1 later. I only mention this because I believe the Phoenix/Reference 1 combo is probably going to be the dream system of many, however, will be quite expensive. For those looking to upgrade in increments it makes sense to go with the Phoenix first (technically speaking as I know it hasn't been released yet) if running a balanced DAC to a single-ended amp will not make use of all four DAC sections.

If anyone knows whether or not the Ref 1 makes use of all four DAC sections when output through RCA please chime in!
Okay, I've opened up my Ref 1 to answer your question (it wasn't clear on the photographs on the Audio-gd site) and it does look like the RCA output is only connected to one half of both output sections. I assume that means that it isn't benefiting at all from the balanced nature of the output sections. (Now I fully understand why Kingwa said the Reference One will only show 60% of its potential through RCA output.)

However, there is still a lot to be said for "source first". It may make sense to start out with a Phoenix amp and only later buy the Ref 1, but if you have anything less than a good source already, there isn't much point in getting an amp of the level of the Phoenix either.
post #102 of 3344
Quote:
Originally Posted by Currawong View Post
In case anyone is thinking that Audio-gd needs its own forum on here for all these threads popping up, yes, I've already suggested that.
Yeah, I think Audio-gd needs their own sponsor forum, to start a library of all the free advertising they get.
post #103 of 3344
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rds View Post
Yeah, I think Audio-gd needs their own sponsor forum, to start a library of all the free advertising they get.
Yes, that's what I meant. As far as I know it's going to happen.
post #104 of 3344
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drosera View Post
Okay, I've opened up my Ref 1 to answer your question (it wasn't clear on the photographs on the Audio-gd site) and it does look like the RCA output is only connected to one half of both output sections. I assume that means that it isn't benefiting at all from the balanced nature of the output sections. (Now I fully understand why Kingwa said the Reference One will only show 60% of its potential through RCA output.)
Very interesting finding
post #105 of 3344
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drosera View Post
Okay, I've opened up my Ref 1 to answer your question (it wasn't clear on the photographs on the Audio-gd site) and it does look like the RCA output is only connected to one half of both output sections. I assume that means that it isn't benefiting at all from the balanced nature of the output sections. (Now I fully understand why Kingwa said the Reference One will only show 60% of its potential through RCA output.)

However, there is still a lot to be said for "source first". It may make sense to start out with a Phoenix amp and only later buy the Ref 1, but if you have anything less than a good source already, there isn't much point in getting an amp of the level of the Phoenix either.
You opened up your Ref 1 just to check?? Well.. Thanks!

This was kind of my suspicion. Maybe we should ask Kingwa to confirm this?

I completely agree a good source is extremely important and even more so when using a high-end amplifier like the Phoenix. I couldn't imagine connecting a Phoenix to a source such as an on-board PC sound card... YUCK!

I'm most definitely going to purchase a Phoenix when released and will also purchase a Ref 1 at some point. I recently purchased a DAC-19 since I wont be able to afford a Phoenix + Ref 1 anytime soon (either or) so I've put my funds aside until the release of Phoenix.

I chose the Phoenix over the Ref 1 because I figured Phoenix would offer a more dramatic upgrade when connected to a decent single-ended DAC than the Ref 1 would make when connected to a single-ended amp like the C-2C (my main amp right now) since the Ref 1's potential would probably be held back so much. I figured I might as well make the topic public so that it may help others wanting to follow an incremental upgrade path.

I guess we'll just have to wait until Phoenix is released to start doing comparisons. I'd love to know how much a difference the Ref 1 connected to Phoenix with balanced CAST versus unbalanced RCA will make. I know of at least one person who will have lots of equipment to do comparisons with .

Until then I guess it's all just specumalation...
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