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Audio-gd Phoenix balanced headphone amp. - Page 5

post #61 of 3338
4/2/09 at 9:36pm
Using the CAST outs from the RE1 to the Phoenix CAST ins...eliminates the need for pricey IC's...at least that's one bright spot cost wise (if you go with a RE1 DAC).


Peete.
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post #62 of 3338
4/2/09 at 11:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Currawong View Post
I don't get what you mean by this. How does an amp "convert SE to balanced"? A connection to an amp or to headphones is either balanced or it isn't.
I posed this question to Headroom as well, when I purchased their Balanced desktop amp.

They told me that a signal fed through the amp's RCA stereo inputs is "converted" to balanced, ultimately outputting a balanced signal / balanced drive to the headphones.
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post #63 of 3338
4/2/09 at 11:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamwhisper View Post
If only it converted SE to balanced like the Headroom Ultra

EDIT: I guess some crossfeed wouldn't hurt either, tho it's hardly as necessary
If you're using balanced headphones, wouldn't the Phoenix amp have to convert the original SE RCA input to balanced? Unless I'm missing something?
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post #64 of 3338
4/3/09 at 1:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadie View Post
If you're using balanced headphones, wouldn't the Phoenix amp have to convert the original SE RCA input to balanced? Unless I'm missing something?
Same puzzlement here. I can't imagine what the Phoenix should do more than it already does.
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post #65 of 3338
4/3/09 at 2:50am
So does this mean I can use a non-balanced dac for the phoenix and still have a "fully" balanced output to a balanced headphone?
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post #66 of 3338
4/3/09 at 4:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by insyte View Post
So does this mean I can use a non-balanced dac for the phoenix and still have a "fully" balanced output to a balanced headphone?
thanks,
this is what I mean

I wonder if we could talk to the maker and see if this is possible.
He seems very ambitious as well receptive to the needs of his customers.
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post #67 of 3338
4/3/09 at 5:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamwhisper View Post
I wonder if we could talk to the maker and see if this is possible.
He seems very ambitious as well receptive to the needs of his customers.
I think you need to get clear what you mean exactly by "fully balanced". Put it in a schematic or something, showing at what point and how in the amplification you want the signal to become balanced, because if you can't make it clear to yourself and others here, you certainly can't make it clear to Kingwa either.
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post #68 of 3338
4/3/09 at 6:43am
I don't understand why it's not good enough just to say:
the same unbalanced input and balanced output that the Headroom
Balanced Ultra Desktop has

Quote:
Originally Posted by Headroom.com
The HeadRoom BUDA has both balanced and single-ended analog inputs on the rear panel. The single-ended inputs got through an internal "phase-splitter" to create the inverted signal ready for balanced drive.
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post #69 of 3338
4/3/09 at 7:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamwhisper View Post
I don't understand why it's not good enough just to say:
the same unbalanced input and balanced output that the Headroom
Balanced Ultra Desktop has
So what you actually mean is division in-, and amplification of 4 separate signal paths with 4 distinct circuitry pathways, 2 for each channel, where one is the inverted signal of the other. If you at least put it like that, there's a chance people will understand it.
You can propose it, it's not quite clear to me if it is already part of the design of the Phoenix. But don't forget that the Phoenix uses CAST technology which already goes a long way towards preventing the signal degradation that balanced design is trying to prevent as well.

Another reason for putting it more clearly and elaborately, is that you are likely to run into a bit of a language barrier. Better to use a schematic as an example, such as here. (I wish they made them in somewhat better quality.) Schematics are the universal language of EE's.
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post #70 of 3338
4/3/09 at 7:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamwhisper View Post
I don't understand why it's not good enough just to say:
the same unbalanced input and balanced output that the Headroom
Balanced Ultra Desktop has

The definition of "fully balanced" according to headroom means getting a balanced signal from a balanced DAC. Not just an amp that makes the inverted signal from a non-balanced DAC.

We don't have specs yet, but looking at the back panel, it might seem that the phoenix will have a "phase splitter" similar to headroom's balanced amp, if it will take in non-balanced input. It would be a plus [for those slowly upgrading] if it does take in non-balanced input too
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post #71 of 3338
4/3/09 at 7:54am
Thread Starter 
A balanced signal between components is different from a balanced headphone. The former, from my limited understanding, uses the ground pin/line to "balance" the signal lowering distortion for long runs of cable. No such thing is involved with balanced headphones, which simply don't share a common signal return as do single-ended headphones.
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post #72 of 3338
4/3/09 at 8:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Currawong View Post
A balanced signal between components is different from a balanced headphone. The former, from my limited understanding, uses the ground pin/line to "balance" the signal lowering distortion for long runs of cable. No such thing is involved with balanced headphones, which simply don't share a common signal return as do single-ended headphones.
To make things more confusing still, I think we're risking mixing three types of 'balanced':

1. Balanced signal transmission between components
2. Balanced discrete amplification circuitry (of which the fully balanced ß22, which Dreamwhisper apparently owned, might be the best example)
3. Balanced headphone output
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post #73 of 3338
4/3/09 at 8:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drosera View Post
To make things more confusing still, I think we're risking mixing three types of 'balanced':

1. Balanced signal transmission between components
2. Balanced discrete amplification circuitry (of which the fully balanced ß22, which Dreamwhisper apparently owned, might be the best example)
3. Balanced headphone output
So does the phoenix fulfill #2 and #3 even if #1 is not fulfilled [e.g. from a non-balanced DAC]?
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post #74 of 3338
4/3/09 at 9:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by insyte View Post
So does the phoenix fulfill #2 and #3 even if #1 is not fulfilled [e.g. from a non-balanced DAC]?
Yes, that's the question at hand. I'm sure it does #3, but whether it does #2, I don't know. You can be sure that the amplification circuitry is discrete, but I'm not sure if it's balanced as well.

No matter what it does, I'm also quite sure it's independent of the input.
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post #75 of 3338
4/3/09 at 10:27am
Ok guys, I see some new pictures in Kingwa's website regarding the Phoenix.. looks interesting..
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