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LOUDNESS WAR - is there anything we can still do ?! - Page 2

post #16 of 121
just buy used CDs that were made in the early 90's like stated before. for latest music, if you like the album, you're just gonna have to live with the loudness. it's a drag but it's really about the music. if it's really 'unlistenable' for you, well i say your priorities are messed up but that's your prerogative.
post #17 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by earwicker7 View Post
As a musician, I have to point out that silence is absolutely as important a tool as loudness. Without knowing when to "shut up" on your instrument, the music becomes a masturbatory competition to see who can play the most notes. That's why I can't stand jazz.
Miles Davis called to say you arent allowed in the cool kids club anymore
post #18 of 121
Thread Starter 
I just wonder how "dumb" are they on some studio, I mean if the all sound is clipping and so on, what so good about it?! Why do it? why "killing" out sound ???
post #19 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by earwicker7 View Post
As a musician, I have to point out that silence is absolutely as important a tool as loudness. Without knowing when to "shut up" on your instrument, the music becomes a masturbatory competition to see who can play the most notes. That's why I can't stand jazz.
I am with you, man!

But jazz and other "polite" music indeed seems to be far from any loudness warfare, maybe apart from some newest harpsichord recordings I have come across, these are very loud and harsh sounding, not to mention the feeling as if your head were just among strings, inside the instrument!

Even though the performance is at least decent.
post #20 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Erik View Post
Yes. Stop buying their crap.

Buy used CDs, recorded before the loudness war began.

Buy a turntable and buy used vinyl.
Yes and yes! I'm lucky to have a great used CD store here in Toronto - Sonic Boom. Most of the stuff I get is from the mid nineties and earlier.

Also, the Rush Remasters are good too, if you like the wailing of Geddy Lee.
post #21 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by earwicker7 View Post
As a musician, I have to point out that silence is absolutely as important a tool as loudness. Without knowing when to "shut up" on your instrument, the music becomes a masturbatory competition to see who can play the most notes. That's why I can't stand jazz.
Absolutely agree, except that I like jazz (occasionally).

The problem with "silence as an instrument" occurs when I realize my speakers haven't produced a note in 2-3 minutes, so I turn them up. Nothing happens, so I turn them up some more. I can just barely hear something, which, upon increasing the volume even more, turns out to be noise from having increased the volume so much. Then, when the music finally begins again, I nearly get my eardrums blown out (and the dog starts barking, which upsets other family members, etc.).

I like music that is exciting, but not in the same sense as dangling off the handrail of a roller-coaster cart.
post #22 of 121
If so, it must be a modern classical music. Hah, I have heard in a radio interview with a known conductor that orchestra members actually hate playing such things and conductors are often at pains to persuade anyone to follow their visionary views on music and taste some bitter but modern compositions
post #23 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaska View Post
"New" as in remastered 15 years ago?

I own pretty much all of Led Zeppelin's catalog, most of which was remastered in and around 1994, and while the mastering isn't perfect, I don't by any stretch of the imagination understand why someone would find the music unlistenable. From album to album, the limits are pushed from time to time, but for the most part the music is still very much full of dynamics.
I'm pretty sure they did a new round of remastering around 2000 or so. I'm guessing it was done to "spice up" (ie, over-compress) the mix.
post #24 of 121
Not as far as I know... The '94(ish) remasters are still to be found on shelves on both sides of the Atlantic--on Atlantic. Perhaps the OP was complaining solely about Mothership. I suppose I'm in the camp that would discount that one as not really qualifying as a "Led Zeppelin album" per se.
post #25 of 121
Go cry in a corner?

personally..i have added the loudness war as notes on my facebook profile...and i talk about it with friends.


sadly..majority is always uninformed about such things..and it is the one which drives sales
post #26 of 121
I thought Mothership was just Phase 1 of a complete re-remaster of the entire catalog. Just like the released fascicles of the new remasters running up to the full box set in 1994.

But basically, yeah, the best way you can influence the industry is to vote with your wallet and spend more money on music that is known to have an improved dynamic range and/or less aggressive mastering style. Note, this does not necessarily mean an "audiophile" release, as a lot of such releases are rather fraudulent IMHO (stuff like 24-bit releases of the same master).
post #27 of 121
Not buy the material, I guess im lucky, most of my stuff is older.
post #28 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Publius View Post
I thought Mothership was just Phase 1 of a complete re-remaster of the entire catalog. Just like the released fascicles of the new remasters running up to the full box set in 1994.
I just picked up Mothership from the local library (it's fun living two blocks from a library). It's loud. Not overly so, but definitely pushing the levels. There is compression. The soundstage and sense of space is also gone compared to my pre-remaster version of the songs. I just did a quick A/B with "When The Levee Breaks" and in the Mothership version the sound is trapped in the headphones pounding between my ears. In the pre-remaster version the sound extends beyond the headphones and has much more space, ah nice (I'm using Denon D2000 headphones for this).

I've not heard any of the 1994 remasters yet. Can't compare with those. If the Mothership versions are the future of Led Zeppelin remastering then new is definitely not better than the old.
post #29 of 121
I figure talking about filesharing is illegal here, but if you really want to vote with your wallet, get your music in another way. I don't know if people here are so motivated to break the law or ethical beliefs (depending on how you feel about IP in general), but it's what some people do - pirate the crappy stuff for casual listening, buy the albums for critical listening. I dunno how much of a real impact that would have on sales, or even the cessation of buying lousily mastered music altogether. I doubt it would really do anything in the grand scheme of things.

EDIT: That being said, I don't personally mind the loudness wars all that much. I'm pretty lucky in that the music I like to listen to critically happens to mostly be anywhere from acceptably good to excellently mastered, and the rest is junk music I casually listen to, usually on an mp3 player going to class with marshmallows.
post #30 of 121
When the loudness war kicks in, there are some CD that I don't listen to, but it seems that either I listen to music relatively unaffected, either I am not too much annoyed by the lack of dynamics.

Recently, only three bands have managed to turn me off their music with loudness war : Qntal (on the III and IV albums), Hocico, and Within Temptation.
It's with mentionning that for the first and the last, live DVD sound much better than studio albums (though, technically, the peak/RMS ratio is not higher).
Qntal have switched from unlistenable noise to extremely compressed, nearly percussion-free, but clean mixes (V and VI), but I won't by the two other band's next CD.

I have been quite surprised to hear Sharon, from Within Temptation, say that she was extremely careful with the sound of the band's productions, while the album The Heart of Everything is nearly unlistenable, and on the wonderful Black Symphony DVD, recorded live with full orchestra and choir, it is nearly impossible to hear the orchestra or the choir behind the guitars.

I have no problem at all with my other favorite bands : Trobar de Morte, Corde Oblique, Faun, Artrosis, Closterkeller... all make decently sounding recordings. Some of the band that I listen to have weak dynamics, but it doesn't sound so bad : Elane, The Moon and the Nightspirit, Artesia...

I have noticed that CD that sound the most clipressed are not always the ones that are the most compressed according to the replaygain estimation of loudness. For example, Indochine - L'aventurier, from the unita compilation, is very compressed, but strangely, it sounds very dynamic. The comparison of the polish and english mixes of Closterkeller - Nero album is also interesting. The 2004 english remix have been very compressed and is much louder than the original polish mix of 2003, however, contrary to what we could expect, the 2004 compressed version sounds more lively than the 2003 dynamic one, which sounds boring.
These are exceptions to the rule, but I find them very interesting in order to understand what compression really is. It can't be dissociated from the mix. It is often the other way, but sometimes, there can be good compressed mixes, and bad dynamics mixes.

Also, some music needs dynamics, while other needs flatness. Artesia is a good example of band whose music have to be mastered without dynamics, because this is the way it must be played. It has a musical purpose. They create beauty from uniformity.
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