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Ballanced turntables?

post #1 of 12
3/29/09 at 8:35pm
Thread Starter 
I was thinking of getting into vinyl. My question (right now,, LOL) is I have a headphone rig and a speaker rig and they are both ballanced.

I have a Merdian G 08 CDP. which is ballanced then my preamp is a Cary SLP 05 with no phono section (I run this ballanced into a set of Cary CAD 500 MB amps), and my Ballanced Supra has no phono section.

I found this turntable on Audiogon:....
AudiogoN ForSale: Vpi Scoutmaster Turntable w/ JMW-9

Which part is ballanced on a turn table. ie. the cartridge, or maybe something I don't know about yet? like what is a:.. XLR Balanced Junction Box?

I have done some reading and there are no ballanced phono stages that I can find.

Help!

I found one! http://www.soundstage.com/vinyl/vinyl200606.htm
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post #2 of 12
3/30/09 at 7:20am
As far as I know a turntable can not be run trully balanced.
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post #3 of 12
3/30/09 at 8:04am
Whest PS.30 R MM/MC Phonostage
SIMAUDIO MOON - LP5.3
Clearaudio do some

I think there are a lot out there.
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post #4 of 12
3/30/09 at 8:48am
The tone arm box on the back of the VPI tables can be run balanced or SE output. You just have to change the box, no big deal. I use the Simaudio LP5.3 & PSX5.3 phonostage it is GREAT! i used just the lp5.3 for oveer a year and it replaced the Ayre P-5xe and BAT VK-P10se. Both much more money and neither as good IMO.
Not many phonostages have the XLR inputs. But many have the balanced outputs to the preamp. Of the affordable ones the Ayre would probably be your best bet.
BTW, I use SE Audioquest Skys from junction box to phonostage and then use XLR Skys from phono to preamp.
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post #5 of 12
3/30/09 at 1:51pm
A turntable can be 'balanced', since the cartridge is non-polar, being two coils of wire--one per channel. If you use a non-coax interconnect, i.e., one that does not use the shield to carry the signal, even with rcas, you can still get what is essentially a balanced signal to a phono preamp like the Sim LP5.3. VPI makes the tonearm junction box with MINI xlrs, for those with xlr inputs on their phono preamp.

You would still need cables with the mini xlrs.....


The Scout/Scoutmasters make a great combo with Sim phono preamps. I'd be happy to put something together for you. Feel free to give me a buzz or email
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post #6 of 12
3/30/09 at 5:57pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom hankins View Post
The tone arm box on the back of the VPI tables can be run balanced or SE output. You just have to change the box, no big deal. I use the Simaudio LP5.3 & PSX5.3 phonostage it is GREAT! i used just the lp5.3 for oveer a year and it replaced the Ayre P-5xe and BAT VK-P10se. Both much more money and neither as good IMO.
Not many phonostages have the XLR inputs. But many have the balanced outputs to the preamp. Of the affordable ones the Ayre would probably be your best bet.
BTW, I use SE Audioquest Skys from junction box to phonostage and then use XLR Skys from phono to preamp.
I like my Preamp, but it has no phono stage. The above choices would mean I would need to change preamps, even if I changed my preamp on the speaker rig, "how do I set up the headphone rig?" (Balanced Supra) Doesn't someone make just a phono stage? So I can use the turntable for both.
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post #7 of 12
3/30/09 at 6:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by markmaxx View Post
I like my Preamp, but it has no phono stage. The above choices would mean I would need to change preamps, even if I changed my preamp on the speaker rig, "how do I set up the headphone rig?" (Balanced Supra) Doesn't someone make just a phono stage? So I can use the turntable for both.
You just need a seperate phonostage. it runs into one of the inputs on your cary preamp. Turntable > phono > preamp. or you can get another preamp that has the phonostage built in, and run the table directly into it. Hope this makes since.
If your looking for a phonostage with multiple inputs and volume control they have those too but not sure if they have the outputs for the headphone amp.
If i was you i would just get a seperate phonostage and run it through you Cary. Not sure how your using your Supra now?
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post #8 of 12
3/30/09 at 7:57pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom hankins View Post
You just need a separate phonostage. it runs into one of the inputs on your Cary preamp. Turntable > phono > preamp. or you can get another preamp that has the phonostage built in, and run the table directly into it. Hope this makes since.
If your looking for a phonostage with multiple inputs and volume control they have those too but not sure if they have the outputs for the headphone amp.
If i was you i would just get a separate phonostage and run it through you Cary. Not sure how your using your Supra now?
Thanks, Tom.
I appreciate your patience. Last first The supra is in the bedroom with a Meridian CDP hooked to the Supra with XLR interconnects. To XLR terminated HD 650.

In the living room the Meridian is carried by me and hooked to the Cary SLP 05 to the Cary mono blocks all hooked with XLR interconnects.

My though was to have the CDP. in one room, and Vinyl in the other room.

Because:..My original plan was, I was going to get another CDP or a DAC (and use my computer, I tunes) as a source.

Then I thought for a little more $ used, I could get a good start on a nice upgradeable turntable, decent arm AudiogoN ForSale: Vpi Scoutmaster Turntable w/ JMW-9 and get a cartridge, a starter phono stage. Then some Records!! Cleaning brushes/fluid,ETC.

But the balanced part threw me because I still don't know:... "if the output of the turntable is RCA to a preamp input also RCA and then the preamp has XLR out puts "is that truly a balanced signal??"(it wouldn't be with a CDP would it?) And there are very few mid-level phono stages that even have XLR outputs.
AudiogoN ForSale: Clearaudio Balance - black - one owner

http://www.clearaudio.de/ and the Clearaudio web-site is in German!
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post #9 of 12
3/30/09 at 8:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by markmaxx View Post
Thanks, Tom.
I appreciate your patience. Last first The supra is in the bedroom with a Meridian CDP hooked to the Supra with XLR interconnects. To XLR terminated HD 650.

In the living room the Meridian is carried by me and hooked to the Cary SLP 05 to the Cary mono blocks all hooked with XLR interconnects.

My though was to have the CDP. in one room, and Vinyl in the other room.

Because:..My original plan was, I was going to get another CDP or a DAC (and use my computer, I tunes) as a source.

Then I thought for a little more $ used, I could get a good start on a nice upgradeable turntable, decent arm AudiogoN ForSale: Vpi Scoutmaster Turntable w/ JMW-9 and get a cartridge, a starter phono stage. Then some Records!! Cleaning brushes/fluid,ETC.

But the balanced part threw me because I still don't know:... "if the output of the turntable is RCA to a preamp input also RCA and then the preamp has XLR out puts "is that truly a balanced signal??"(it wouldn't be with a CDP would it?) And there are very few mid-level phono stages that even have XLR outputs.
AudiogoN ForSale: Clearaudio Balance - black - one owner

Laufwerke, Tonarme, Phonovorverstärker, Powergeneratoren, Tonarm, Schallplattenreinigung, Goldfinger, Cmb and the Clearaudio web-site is in German!
Part of your answer is in post #5 about the signal being balanced even though you are using RCA cables from the VPI to the phonostage. The good thing about then running with the balanced output from the phono to your preamp is you get the extra gain (and quiet) from your phonostage. there are quite a few midrange phonostages that have XLR outputs to your preamp. the Simaudio, PS Audio for example. I dont really think even theextra gain will be an issue with either of these phonostages depending what cartridge you use.
I can tell you this from owning 2 different VPI tables and four different Dynavector cartridges with the Simaudio. they all work very well together.
I hope this helps some. i would not worry about running RCA from table(arm) to phono and XLR from phono to your Cary. its not an issue. Most arms come with a DIN plug to RCA. The VPIs use the box.
Maybe calling MD would be your best bet. Not sure i am understanding what your getting at.
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post #10 of 12
3/30/09 at 9:26pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom hankins View Post
Part of your answer is in post #5 about the signal being balanced even though you are using RCA cables from the VPI to the phonostage. The good thing about then running with the balanced output from the phono to your preamp is you get the extra gain (and quiet) from your phonostage. there are quite a few midrange phonostages that have XLR outputs to your preamp. the Simaudio, PS Audio for example.
I did some re-reading and get it know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom hankins View Post
Maybe calling MD would be your best bet. Not sure i am understanding what your getting at.
You answered every thing.

Thank You! Good luck with your new setup! I loved the picture with all the boxes.
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post #11 of 12
3/30/09 at 9:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by markmaxx View Post
I did some re-reading and get it know.



You answered every thing.

Thank You! Good luck with your new setup! I loved the picture with all the boxes.
PM or email me if you get the table and need some help. if i can help you I will.
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post #12 of 12
6/2/09 at 1:33am
Part of your answer is in post #5 about the signal being balanced even though you are using RCA cables from the VPI to the phonostage. The good thing about then running with the balanced output from the phono to your preamp is you get the extra gain (and quiet) from your phonostage. there are quite a few midrange phonostages that have XLR outputs to your preamp. the Simaudio, PS Audio for example. I dont really think even theextra gain will be an issue with either of these phonostages depending what cartridge you use.
I can tell you this from owning 2 different VPI tables and four different Dynavector cartridges with the Simaudio. they all work very well together.
I hope this helps some. i would not worry about running RCA from table(arm) to phono and XLR from phono to your Cary. its not an issue. Most arms come with a DIN plug to RCA. The VPIs use the box.
Maybe calling MD would be your best bet. Not sure i am understanding what your getting at.
Reply
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