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Millett Hybrid MiniMax - As Good As - Oh Yeah!!!

post #1 of 53
3/26/09 at 6:57pm
Thread Starter 
OK...

... I've been thinking of trying a Millett Hybrid MiniMax to see how it compares to my other amps - sort of "on the rebound" from the Caliente, which is not available.

I've had some conversations with SACD Lover who really likes them - he's got "dozens" of them.

But... how do others like them... compared to other amps?

They look pretty impressive... and... the few reports I've seen are pretty good - but, there are very few reports.

Do they really compete with the best amps out there?

So... can anyone "enlighten me?"
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post #2 of 53
3/26/09 at 7:05pm
X2. i like the look of it too.
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post #3 of 53
3/26/09 at 7:33pm
The Millet MAX (and MiniMax as it's 99.9% the same) is a nice amplifier, period.

What do you consider "best amps out there"? One man's trash is another man's treasure.
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post #4 of 53
3/26/09 at 7:36pm
The King of the hybrids should be here Saturday .... hopefully. JP11801 and I both had Stacker 2s built by dBel84. These hybrids have true high voltage tube rectified power supplies for the input/ gain tubes that are cap coupled to an advanced Class A buffer. He did a fantastic job and I probably wont sleep much Friday night.

I borrowed these pics from Don ....


Boards etched



The power supply



initial testing



laying out the top plate





wiring up Earl's input stage



top side





The panels arrive and a quick dry fit





The assembly

JP







EC








Under the hood






Final result



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post #5 of 53
3/26/09 at 8:25pm
Nice Pics Beatiful looking amp
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post #6 of 53
3/26/09 at 8:27pm
DAMN where can I order one?
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post #7 of 53
3/26/09 at 8:30pm
Thread Starter 

But...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gradofan2 View Post
OK...

... I've been thinking of trying a Millett Hybrid MiniMax to see how it compares to my other amps - sort of "on the rebound" from the Caliente, which is not available.

I've had some conversations with SACD Lover who really likes them - he's got "dozens" of them.

But... how do others like them... compared to other amps?

They look pretty impressive... and... the few reports I've seen are pretty good - but, there are very few reports.

Do they really compete with the best amps out there?

So... can anyone "enlighten me?"
But... is the Millett Hybrid MiniMax as good as... "the best amps available" (defined as any amp over about $600+... since... they all sound about the same above that price... or... at least their sound does not improve proportionate to their price above that price - if you think so, you're deluding yourself).

And... where can I find the power output of this amp for various impedance loads?
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post #8 of 53
3/26/09 at 8:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sacd lover View Post
The King of the hybrids should be here Saturday .... hopefully. JP11801 and I both had Stacker 2s built by dBel84. These hybrids have true high voltage tube rectified power supplies for the input/ gain tubes that are cap coupled to an advanced Class A buffer. He did a fantastic job and I probably wont sleep much Friday night.
I'm happy to know that the Stacker II project is alive. I hope this design will be publicly available someday.
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post #9 of 53
3/26/09 at 9:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gradofan2 View Post
But... is the Millett Hybrid MiniMax as good as... "the best amps available" (defined as any amp over about $600+... since... they all sound about the same above that price... or... at least their sound does not improve proportionate to their price above that price - if you think so, you're deluding yourself).

And... where can I find the power output of this amp for various impedance loads?
I am not going to argue that all amps over $600 all sound about the same. Lets just say I dont hold that opinon. Immediately, I can think of one SS amp that costs well over $600 that I cant stand.

I can tell you this GF. I just got this MOSFET Max .... absolutely first rate and maybe my favorite hybrid so far. This amp using MS2s sounds powerful, full bodied, fast, clear, dynamic and the bass impact is stunning. No treble edge or grit, no darkness, no excess brightness. I have 12FK6s in and the gain is defintely lower than with 12AE6s; but the gain is more than ample. This amp pushes all the right buttons and I paid the whopping total of $265 shipped express from Canada. If my Stacker 2 sounds better than this one I will one happy fellow.

Like I said in my pm to you .... try one .... especially if you can find a nice used amp. I think you would particualrly like the Millet Mini-Max. Myself, I like the tone the MOSFET version gives my Alessandros and I dont care how the Senns will sound becasue I have other Senn amps; although I would bet the sound will be very good. If you dont like the amp, buying used, you wont lose much on a resale. These go used for $225-325 used and you see one about every couple of weeks.




[/
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post #10 of 53
3/26/09 at 10:14pm
Thread Starter 

Agreed...

SACD Lover (Earl)...

I agree that some >$600 amps don't sound as good as much lower priced amps. Very few amps at any price, sound as good as the better DV amps. And... I've got a Shellbrook Maxi Moy, which sounds as good as $1500+ amps, especially when teamed with a tube buffer.

My only point is... just that... anyone who expects a $600+ amp to sound proportionately better to the cost of the amp... is simply deluding himself. So... no one should expect any high-priced amp to even come close to being significantly better than a $500 amp.

Though... much depends on one's "marginal utility" of their dollar (funds). If you're "marginal utility" of your funds is very low, then you may think a 5% improvement for an amp that costs 5 times as much justifies the funds invested. While my "marginal utility" would permit me to make such an investment... my "reason" would not. Other's may be much more "obsessed" with very marginal improvements in sound - I'm not.

Now... re: the realative SQ of the Millett Mosfet Max - please expand relative to the MiniMax. I understood from someone, that the Mosfet Max, was about 99% of the MiniMax - that they're very similar.

Is that true?

Does your Mosfet Max sound substantially better than your MiniMax collection?

And... If so, have you analyzed - why, that is the case? What components are different, to make it better.

And... where can you buy a Mosfet Max? Though, I guess I could build one - if I got ambitious.

I'm very interested in these... primarily... because they may support my conviction - stated above... and... because they're such values.

I admit, you've been the one that has opened this "pandora's box." I hope their's a inexpensive way to close it.
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post #11 of 53
3/26/09 at 10:51pm
You wear me out GF.

Here goes, I like the MOSFET Max/ Alessandro combo best period. But, I dont know what is in some of the amps because I did not buy them directly from the builder .... I am the third or so owner. Most people follow the standard parts list but I cant say for sure with the MOSFET amps.

That is why I recommend the Millet Mini-Max for you. The MM builds are much more consistent because space dictates many of the parts choices .... and I know the MM sounds excellent with Senns too. I have two MMs, one up, one down and the parts list was generally followed by both builders. I cant tell them apart. The MM is a little leaner (or less full bodied) and faster which you seem to prefer for Senns, according to your posts.

I have different sources, cables and I also think I like Alessandros a little better than my 600s. The MOSFET amp is my defintion of perfect with the Alessandros. But, I dont think we have quite the same tastes and you seem to want the Senns to sound equally good on whatever hybrid. I think they do on the MM. But, despite whatever I tell you. You are not going to know what the hybrids can truly do until you try one. But, the new discrete buffers and the power supply improvements in the MM, are no doubt, big improvements over the older op amp Millet you had.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gradofan2 View Post
SACD Lover (Earl)...

I agree that some >$600 amps don't sound as good as much lower priced amps. Very few amps at any price, sound as good as the better DV amps. And... I've got a Shellbrook Maxi Moy, which sounds as good as $1500+ amps, especially when teamed with a tube buffer.

My only point is... just that... anyone who expects a $600+ amp to sound proportionately better to the cost of the amp... is simply deluding himself. So... no one should expect any high-priced amp to even come close to being significantly better than a $500 amp.

Though... much depends on one's "marginal utility" of their dollar (funds). If you're "marginal utility" of your funds is very low, then you may think a 5% improvement for an amp that costs 5 times as much justifies the funds invested. While my "marginal utility" would permit me to make such an investment... my "reason" would not. Other's may be much more "obsessed" with very marginal improvements in sound - I'm not.

Now... re: the realative SQ of the Millett Mosfet Max - please expand relative to the MiniMax. I understood from someone, that the Mosfet Max, was about 99% of the MiniMax - that they're very similar.

Is that true?

Does your Mosfet Max sound substantially better than your MiniMax collection?

And... If so, have you analyzed - why, that is the case? What components are different, to make it better.

And... where can you buy a Mosfet Max? Though, I guess I could build one - if I got ambitious.

I'm very interested in these... primarily... because they may support my conviction - stated above... and... because they're such values.

I admit, you've been the one that has opened this "pandora's box." I hope their's a inexpensive way to close it.
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post #12 of 53
3/26/09 at 11:41pm
Thread Starter 

OK...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sacd lover View Post
You wear me out GF.

Here goes, I like the MOSFET Max/ Alessandro combo best period. But, I dont know what is in some of the amps because I did not buy them directly from the builder .... I am the third or so owner. Most people follow the standard parts list but I cant say for sure with the MOSFET amps.

That is why I recommend the Millet Mini-Max for you. The MM builds are much more consistent because space dictates many of the parts choices .... and I know the MM sounds excellent with Senns too. I have two MMs, one up, one down and the parts list was generally followed by both builders. I cant tell them apart. The MM is a little leaner (or less full bodied) and faster which you seem to prefer for Senns, according to your posts.

I have different sources, cables and I also think I like Alessandros a little better than my 600s. The MOSFET amp is my defintion of perfect with the Alessandros. But, I dont think we have quite the same tastes and you seem to want the Senns to sound equally good on whatever hybrid. I think they do on the MM. But, despite whatever I tell you. You are not going to know what the hybrids can truly do until you try one. But, the new discrete buffers and the power supply improvements in the MM, are no doubt, big improvements over the older op amp Millet you had.
OK...

I understand... you haven't analyzed them to understand the differences.

I did find the "Bill of Materials" for each... and... I can compare them sometime. But... my first impression... is that the Mosfet Max... may have a more robust power supply, which may contibute to the richer sound you describe with Grados. It may also have a larger case, which allows the use of larger caps. Just "a guess."

But... you have "peaked my interest." I like the "hybrid sound" - and think it could easily displace my facination with tube amps. Though, I do want a bit richer sound than produced by most SS amps. I just want the amp to drive both Grados (as well as Denons), and Senns equally well - if that's possible.

And... I'm still interested in anyone else's thoughts on both the Millett Hybrid Mosfet Max, and the Millett Hybrid MiniMax.

UPDATE: I understand that the Mosfet Max has Mosfets, while the MiniMax has a diamond buffer. The Mosfets reportedly have a warmer sound, while the diamond buffer provides greater clarity and detail. The MiniMax also reportedly has improved Toshiba transistors, and an improved power supply. The Mosfets require larger heat sinks and a larger case, than the MiniMax. This would explain why the Mosfet Max may sound better with Grados, and the MiniMax may sound better with Senns, which benefit by greater clarity.
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post #13 of 53
3/27/09 at 3:10am
Right, I was going to keep out of this, but there is something broken in my brain and I can't contain myself...... Gradofan2, you are so very, very confused.

The Millett Max, MOSFET Max and Mini Max are all just slightly different flavours of the same thing.
All have the exact same design for the tube front end.
All existing Millett Max and MOSFET Max have the same power supply based around the LM317.
The Mini Max power supply is almost the exact same circuit based around LM317, but tweaked for lower noise.
Some claim the new power supply improves sound. But the Mini Max is very new, and many people will not have heard it.
The MOSFET Max is almost exactly the same as all the other maxes, except it has MOSFETs instead of BJTs. Both are still diamond buffers.
There are no new 'upgraded' Toshiba transistors, because there is no standard build. Builders have a wide choice of different transistors.

My advice to you is to stop obsessing about minutiae you don't understand. The basic architecture of the tube front end with a powerful solid state buffer is not going to change - as I said, slightly different flavours of the same thing. Builder skill and part selection can have an influence in sound, but we cannot possibly hope to give you information on every possible combination.

If you find a Millett for sale and you are interested, then try asking one of us whether we think it is a good build or not. It will save all of these pointless and silly questions.
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post #14 of 53
3/27/09 at 3:25am
Thread Starter 

I'm Just The Reporter...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beefy View Post
Right, I was going to keep out of this, but there is something broken in my brain and I can't contain myself...... Gradofan2, you are so very, very confused.

The Millett Max, MOSFET Max and Mini Max are all just slightly different flavours of the same thing.
All have the exact same design for the tube front end.
All existing Millett Max and MOSFET Max have the same power supply based around the LM317.
The Mini Max power supply is almost the exact same circuit based around LM317, but tweaked for lower noise.
Some claim the new power supply improves sound. But the Mini Max is very new, and many people will not have heard it.
The MOSFET Max is almost exactly the same as all the other maxes, except it has MOSFETs instead of BJTs. Both are still diamond buffers.
There are no new 'upgraded' Toshiba transistors, because there is no standard build. Builders have a wide choice of different transistors.

My advice to you is to stop obsessing about minutiae you don't understand. The basic architecture of the tube front end with a powerful solid state buffer is not going to change - as I said, slightly different flavours of the same thing. Builder skill and part selection can have an influence in sound, but we cannot possibly hope to give you information on every possible combination.

If you find a Millett for sale and you are interested, then try asking one of us whether we think it is a good build or not. It will save all of these pointless and silly questions.
I'm just the reporter... reporting what the folks at Whiplash reported to me. I do understand the MiniMax uses the BJTs for its buffer, which I omitted, instead of Mosfets in its buffer. They also reported their MiniMax uses improved Toshiba transistors. I can only report what they reported. You may build your's differently.

I'd rather, attempt to identify their differences, and determine if either one is something I'd like to try, based on their relative SQ with various phones... than to "just take a flyer." I really don't care anything about "the build" - just the "results." Only a few "techy's" will care about "the build." Perhaps you should focus your comments on the DIY Forum, where they're more appropriate - most of us have no interest in your perspective... other than as it relates to the SQ... which, by the way... you've failed to address.
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post #15 of 53
3/27/09 at 3:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gradofan2 View Post
I'm just the reporter... reporting what the folks at Whiplash reported to me.
If you are looking at the Whiplash builds, you are looking in the right direction. I know who builds them and they are very skilled, and the part selection is good.

Quote:
I'd rather, attempt to identify their differences, and determine if either one is something I'd like to try, based on their relative SQ with various phones... than to "just take a flyer."
The nature of these amps is that it is very difficult to compare builds just from posted opinions because buyers often don't know what parts have been used. SACD lover has already told you this. But even then, it is very much a case of slightly different flavours of the same thing. The tubes dominate the sound. In older Milletts, the output buffers held them back. With any of the new versions, the output buffers do not hold it back.

Quote:
I really don't care anything about "the build" - just the "results."
They are one and the same.
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