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Very High end Speakers Boenicke audio - Page 3

post #31 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by munk View Post
You are entitled to your own opinion I think the idea of using the speaker box and a natural amplifier is a great idea.
if its just contributing its own effect, its not a 'music playback system', its an instrument in its own right.

but how many instruments make good 'MPS's?
post #32 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by munk View Post
THis is the craftsman his name is Stefan Hoehn
Ok, I get it. He has a Hoehn the jeans he's wearing!

Corny jokes aside, these look like fabulous speakers. Nice review at 6moons, but that's always hard to go by; they seem to like everything. I'd love to have a chance to give them a listen one day, perhaps at one of the big shows like CES or THE Show.

Did it occur to anyone else that what they've done with the wood carvings is quite similar (in concept) to what JVC did with the interior wood chambers of the DX1000?
post #33 of 102
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 883dave View Post
The problems is that usually an instrument is tuned from several different types of wood. There are now instruments that are made of carbon fibre.

The website doesn't really say much about what the wood does, except it mimics musical instruments. (seems to be a marketing slogan). And keep in mind all the speakers are made of Silver Fir, except the flagship which is made of Black Walnut or Custom made. If they were tuning the cabinet to resonate for sound they would have to control the type and also array of the wood used.



A quote from "Magico", which use Baltic Birch in their mini speakers.
"Resonances in the body of a musical instrument are an essential part of defining its nature and quality. The opposite is true of a loudspeaker. Cabinet panel resonances are a significant cause of sound coloration. Heavy bracing of a typical MDF enclosure can help reduce enclosure flex but at the cost of increased energy storage and damping factor. Although a welcome attribute for midrange output, over damping is detrimental to bass performance (High energy storage, low wide Q and low resonances). MAGICO has spent many years developing an enclosure system that successfully balances the 3 elements that constitute a proper loudspeaker enclosure: stiffness, mass, and dampness.

Solid wood would have all three elements.

Looks to me as if the carved interior would in some way emulate a horn enclosure
Well put man thanks for the clarification
post #34 of 102
when I look at these I can't help but think "horn"

it like all they're doing is trying to introduce some sort of quasi-infinite baffle system, possibly with a passive radiator (can't tell) and possibly just with the open port on the bottom (oh god, ported, must be the DEVIL and we should BURN IT DOWN because it actually lets the sound TOUCH something like AIR )

these honestly look "smart", and probably sound great (I'd love to hear them as well)

as far as B&W trying to "minimize all resonation", they have their own method of doing what Boenicke has done, from the B&W website:

Quote:
The sound of silence. Not all sound generated by speaker drive units is good sound. The kind that emerges from the back of a working driver, into a conventional box cabinet, can bounce around and make a mess of the good sound coming out of the front. B&W’s trailblazing Nautilus™ speaker found a way around boxes. Tapering tubes filled with absorbent wadding soaked up the wayward sound energy and reduced resonances to an insignificant minimum.

Nautilus™ Tapering Tubes are fitted to nearly all B&W speakers, even when they’re not visible to the eye. Sound is channelled through a hollow pole magnet, away from the diaphragm, and disappears into the tail.. So all the sound you hear is good sound.
in other words, instead of playing around with horns, reflections, etc from the back of the driver, they have the "tubes"

neither is "wrong", just very different engineering approaches
post #35 of 102
Thread Starter 
I'd have to agree if you are looking for great deep fast vibrating bass then yes low resonance is important. As for deep smooth bass having resonance (Like that of a cello) would only add to the quality of the sound. Who the hell is going to be playing Ti, the game or good ol' NWA with a swiss speaker? I for one took a set of tower speakers put noise canceling padding and popped two 15inch MTX subs in it along with some 1000w tweeters.
post #36 of 102
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wmcmanus View Post
Ok, I get it. He has a Hoehn the jeans he's wearing!

Corny jokes aside, these look like fabulous speakers. Nice review at 6moons, but that's always hard to go by; they seem to like everything. I'd love to have a chance to give them a listen one day, perhaps at one of the big shows like CES or THE Show.

Did it occur to anyone else that what they've done with the wood carvings is quite similar (in concept) to what JVC did with the interior wood chambers of the DX1000?
I am a firm believer in wood (no innuendo there) as a media for audio equipment. JVC is on to something there.
post #37 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by munk View Post
I'd have to agree if you are looking for great deep fast vibrating bass then yes low resonance is important. As for deep smooth bass having resonance (Like that of a cello) would only add to the quality of the sound. Who the hell is going to be playing Ti, the game or good ol' NWA with a swiss speaker? I for one took a set of tower speakers put noise canceling padding and popped two 15inch MTX subs in it along with some 1000w tweeters.
I've blasted Kanye West on a $16,000 pair of italian speakers with about $60k of front-end electronics, sounded pretty good

and I listen to T.I. on my 'stats, also sounds pretty good

so to answer your question: me.
post #38 of 102
By purchasing any of the W-Series Loudspeakers you note and accept that overall dimensions of the speaker enclosure can vary up to 1.5% *if the bandwidth of air humidity change in the room *of operation / storage is as wide as 20% (and if changes of humidity are slow enough so that the wood will fully adapt) and up to 2.5% if the bandwidth of air humidity change in the room of *operation / storage is as wide as 40% (and if changes of humidity are slow enough).
These figures hold true for the Swiss Stone Pine, Spruce Fir Moon Wood and similar kind of wood. If other wood is chosen, aforementioned figures can be higher.

This quote is from the website. I would have to invest in some serious HVAC work before I could have these in my house. I live in an area where I have seen the RH go from 29 to 37 in one day.

Munk....I believe you said you had heard these, how did they sound and what can you compare them too?
post #39 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by munk View Post
98% of instruments are wood resonant reliant...stringed,drums,piano, and wood wind. Why would you ever use high end audiophile grade speakers for electronic music just buy some cerwin vegas.
I very much doubt the figure 98%. What about percussion and brass, not to mention the human voice?

I agree with others that the wood resonance issue is just advertising hype. At best its an argument nor for accuarcy of reproduction but for a euphonic sound, i.e. ear-friendly distortion. It also seems to strike a chord (!) in someone who wants to think of his/her stereo as an instrument rather than a piece of technology.

One of the better simple early speaker designs set speakers in concrete tubes, filled with sand. Effective, but not something the advertising guys can hype up. "Sounds like your sidewalk?"

I think the main attractions of wood are that it's widely available, easy to work with and aestheically pleasing, but not necessarily the best substance acoustically.
post #40 of 102
Thread Starter 
Percussion is a wood instrument (with exception for cymbals, and cow bell etc). The human voice uses resonance for amplification as well. Anyways yes you are correct 98% is a lot higher a number than it should have been. Either way all of the warm toned instruments which is what resonating speakers compliment are made of wood. Which is why you would buy these speakers. It is not a marketing gimmick because I was the one who used the word resonate not the company if we could just get past that word it would be fantastic. lol
post #41 of 102
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by obobskivich View Post
I've blasted Kanye West on a $16,000 pair of italian speakers with about $60k of front-end electronics, sounded pretty good

and I listen to T.I. on my 'stats, also sounds pretty good

so to answer your question: me.
haha touche I stand corrected
post #42 of 102
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 883dave View Post
Munk....I believe you said you had heard these, how did they sound and what can you compare them too?
They weren't like anything else I have heard to be honest I didn't have the pleasure of spending enough time to enjoy them, as I said before in the next couple months I will be getting them in and I will post my review of them. I am going to be getting the W20's AUDIOMANUFACTURE W20 ULTIMATE GRADE MUSICAL PLAYBACK INSTRUMENT instead of the W20SE's. The pair I had heard were the W20SE's but I liked the idea of the porting on the W20's better. I will let you know as soon as I can get the speakers in a large enough room to really appreciate the acoustics.
post #43 of 102
I'd never buy those. They're nice furniture, but that's about it.

First, solid wood is a terrible medium for speakers. I know, I know, it has loads of sex appeal and marketing prowess. How else better to point out the "cheapness" of competing speakers?

The problem is that wood moves a LOT. Anyone who has done woodwork can tell you how pieces they cut in the evening are a different size in the morning. That only shocks the noobs - anyone who has worked with wood learns to deal with it. So if the size of the speaker is constantly changing, it's NOT going to sound the same.

If you think that mimics instruments, think again. I've been playing a wood clarinet over 25 years. Yes, it moves with temperature and humidity. The difference is that you tune it. You have retune with swings in temperature and humidity. These speakers canno be tuned, so they must go out of tune. Is that what you want to drop five figures on?

MDF and plywood are far more dimensionally stable than wood. So while you can ding those manufacturers for "cheapness," their speakers are far more consistent.

Second, you really don't want cabinet resonances in your music. They color and veil. Is that really what you want? Most of us listen to open headphones - the entire point of that is to get away from unwanted resonances. Further, my favorite speakers don't have cabinets at all. The Quad ESL-63s, for example, just have a frame. The Orions I'm working on have dynamic drivers, but are open baffle and free of cabinet colorations. To my ears, open baffle and dipole speakers sound much, much more "real" than cabinet speakers.

Finally, running a ribbon as a monopole is a mistake. The entire point of a ribbon, in my opinion, is the delicious dipole effect they have. I've lived with dipole ribbons for about seven years - there is just something fundamentally "right" about them.

So I'd never buy these. If you want pretty furniture to ooh and aah over the craftsmanship and brag to your friends about the price and how they were handmade in Switzerland, then they're for you. If you want the best music reproduction possible, get some Quads, Magnepans, Apogees, Matrin Logans, or any one of many fantastic DIY projects.
post #44 of 102
I agree with Uncle Eric except with his sentiment at the bottom where boxed speakers are conspicuously missing from being potentially "best" for music playback.

Vienna Acoustics has a similar philosophy to this guy from what I've seen. Even Stereophile was torn, because they weren't accurate seeming to always have a changing sound about them with resonance. For speakers I do not see this as a good thing, because different places have different temperature and humidity. What sounds good in one area will sound worse in another due to the inconsistent nature of it all.

Some on the other hand may treat it as a live experience every time constantly changing. This is what Stereophile seemed to adore them for and caused the greatest conflict.
post #45 of 102
Thread Starter 
Maybe I am just a hippie at heart but the thought of changing tones (if they are still good sound quality) is a bit of an organic feel and less rigidity that I like. I am a musician and love wood work so for me these suite my personality and hopefully deliver the sound quality to back up their price. I still believe in the sound quality of the RAAL's in monopole they fill the room quite impressively when matched with the 20' driver.
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