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Audio-gd Reference 1 DAC (56 K warning) - Page 54

post #796 of 2415
7/20/09 at 4:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by IPodPJ View Post
I believe that, but does that mean that it's not great out of the box? Or is it just so neutral and transparent that it doesn't WOW you right away.
Well it does sound great out of the box considering that my REF1 only saw around 50 hours because I asked Kingwa to rush the shipment.

Secondly I was hearing the DAC19SE for a couple of months before the REF1 and I could clearly hear huge improvement in all departments.

There is a slight edginess on the first couple of runs which fades away with burn in, I also noticed that it begins to sound much cleaner with greater dynamics (what one may call slam), which I guess further opens up the sound stage and makes it more precise. Well these were my observations.

Although I must add that even though my REf1 has seen around 400+ hours, its still takes around 30 mins after its switched on to sound its best.

So yes, if you are going to love the REF1, you will love it out of the box itself - its just that you will love it even more as it ages.. If you dont like it - its tough to like it no matter how much it burns in - IMHO.

EDIT - I might sound contradictory with my last line as I asked you to give it some time - but the truth is, if I did not love the REF1 SQ the first time ( 2-3 hours after it was switched on the first time) I wouldn't have liked it no matter.. its not like the Compass experience with OPAMPS which took me on a rollercoaster ride as the stuff saw more burn in - REF1 is serious, it maintains its character throughout by just getting more matured and getting rid of the edginess - again IMPO..
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post #797 of 2415
7/20/09 at 4:48pm
Thread Starter 
It'll underwhelm you at first...but it gives you a solid taste of what is coming right off the bat. It takes a good long while to begin delivering the full goods it's capable of....by then you'll either be fully hooked or want to move on.

It's very neutral and transparent with nothing added or taken away...some folks don't like that and that's just fine.

Peete.

PS: Good additional points Sanchak...as for Curra....that 1.4K US thingie for the HD800's...gulp...thanks for reminding me

PSS : The CAST cables and XLR IC's just came (about 45 minutes ago) so I'm giving them a whirl.
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post #798 of 2415
7/20/09 at 9:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandchak View Post
Well it does sound great out of the box considering that my REF1 only saw around 50 hours because I asked Kingwa to rush the shipment.

Secondly I was hearing the DAC19SE for a couple of months before the REF1 and I could clearly hear huge improvement in all departments.

There is a slight edginess on the first couple of runs which fades away with burn in, I also noticed that it begins to sound much cleaner with greater dynamics (what one may call slam), which I guess further opens up the sound stage and makes it more precise. Well these were my observations.

Although I must add that even though my REf1 has seen around 400+ hours, its still takes around 30 mins after its switched on to sound its best.

So yes, if you are going to love the REF1, you will love it out of the box itself - its just that you will love it even more as it ages.. If you dont like it - its tough to like it no matter how much it burns in - IMHO.

EDIT - I might sound contradictory with my last line as I asked you to give it some time - but the truth is, if I did not love the REF1 SQ the first time ( 2-3 hours after it was switched on the first time) I wouldn't have liked it no matter.. its not like the Compass experience with OPAMPS which took me on a rollercoaster ride as the stuff saw more burn in - REF1 is serious, it maintains its character throughout by just getting more matured and getting rid of the edginess - again IMPO..
I understand that very well because the Phoenix takes 4 hours of warm up before it settles... this is a huge pain in the ass but hey, what can I do.
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post #799 of 2415
7/20/09 at 9:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pricklely Peete View Post
It'll underwhelm you at first...but it gives you a solid taste of what is coming right off the bat. It takes a good long while to begin delivering the full goods it's capable of....by then you'll either be fully hooked or want to move on.

It's very neutral and transparent with nothing added or taken away...some folks don't like that and that's just fine.

Peete.

PS: Good additional points Sanchak...as for Curra....that 1.4K US thingie for the HD800's...gulp...thanks for reminding me

PSS : The CAST cables and XLR IC's just came (about 45 minutes ago) so I'm giving them a whirl.
Peete,
You weren't running CAST into the Phoenix? Oh, you must let me know how that sounds. That is clearly what I want to know. After the 4 hour warm-up I find SE sounds more dynamic and detailed than XLR, so CAST should be even better. Once I have the Phoenix rewired I'm hoping that XLR is better as it should be.

And if it underwhelms me even new after being on for several hours, that is not a good sign. A great DAC will sound great right away, especially if it has already had 100 hours of burn-in before it arrives. Stop scaring me.
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post #800 of 2415
7/20/09 at 10:05pm
Thread Starter 
Not to worry PJ...the RE1 takes it's time to reveal the full breadth of it's capabilities...it's a byproduct of the A-gd burn in process. You'll have no trouble figuring out (from the first 5 or 6 hours) that this DAC means serious business from the get go.

The best description I can give CAST thus far is super clean,detailed, highly accurate 3D copies of the real thing (recorded vs live). You hear every single last nuance on the recording without any coloration or influence from the DAC itself (beyond the PCM1704UK house sound which is well known and typical of BB at it's best). The difference from CAST I think can be summed up from my current experience with it thus far.....tonal shading, delay trails, micro and macro detailing, dynamics and level contrast, sound staging placement all extremely accurate and "right" sounding.

The first thing you should do (if you don't mind a suggestion or two) after you get the RE1 in house is let her run for a couple of days but have your toughest (acoustic) string and piano reference recordings ready to spin on a regular basis at 100 hour intervals (that way you'll be able track progress fairly easily). Take note of the presentation of these two extremely tough (to get right for digital) instruments.That will tell you what you need to know IMO...if a DAC gets these 2 right (which isn't as common among high end digital gear as one might think) the rest falls into place.

The RE1 for it's rendition of classical and piano is worth keeping on that performance alone IMO....Drosera has an extensive and terrific library of classical music and he's better placed to give details on this genre but the few recordings I have that feature large orchestra and piano concertos have been riveting to listen to in there realism.

I know this sounds like it's a tough act for a 1.5K US DAC to accomplish but forget about the cost of the RE1 as it's clearly not built like your average 1.5K US DAC.

I don't think you'll be disappointed in the slightest. I listen to a variety of genres with recording quality that runs the gamut from great to crappy. The RE1 won't make anything better (it can't cure a crappy mastering job) but it also won't make anything worse. It's a direct, crystal clear window on your source material and transport...make absolutely sure your source T is up to snuff.

As I said earlier in this thread (and elsewhere) I wasn't tapping the full potential of the RE1 until I used it with CAST but also with a top shelf transport which Kingwa clearly pointed out to me before I bought the CD7. He had told me my previous spinner (no POS either) was the weak link. Boy was he right....

I will be comparing CAST vs XLR from the RE1 to the Phoenix in the near future but for now Curra is a better judge of what difference's there may be in that regard. I can only tell you what I'm hearing right now. I'm loving it though in case you hadn't guessed that by now


Peete.
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post #801 of 2415
7/21/09 at 4:50am
This is quite interesting, and unnerving:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f7/rma...ce-1-a-435290/

What do you guys make of it? I find it interesting in that Sachu said he was not as impressed with the treble as other DACs, and I haven't seen too many comments regarding the treble anyway. If these measurements are correct, it would explain why.
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post #802 of 2415
7/21/09 at 5:38am
How do you take RMAA measurements?

The Ref 1 measurement is -1.4/-1.5 dB at 20k. Less than 1 dB is supposed to be inaudible. At 20k, going by my what I've tested of my hearing, that'll probably make no difference to me. Could be the way the over-sampling filter is set up. You'll have a NOS switch on yours, so you'll be able to nuke that with a press of a button, but at the risk if distortion. Everyone else will just have to get the switch settings for the DSP so they can lower or change the over-sampling.
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post #803 of 2415
7/21/09 at 6:41am
Yeah, I doubt I can hear that high anyway. Usually I can't hear over 16K-17K unless I turn the volume way up when listening to a sweep. My concern was if it would have a harmonic effect or something like that. I don't really care too much if there's a roll off between 15K and 20K, but the roll off seems to start around 7 or 8K and that is of concern. Of course I really have no concern until I actually receive and listen to the unit, but it just seemed to correlate with the lack of treble impressions written.
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post #804 of 2415
7/21/09 at 8:37am
I'd take that measurement over a spike in the treble.
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post #805 of 2415
7/21/09 at 10:15am
I take it how it measures on a meter, and nothing about how it sounds to my ears - I had put across one of these measurements question to Kingwa sometime back, and what he said was, its very simple to design a circuit that scores 10/10 on the meter, in fact he said, when he designs a new gear, he usually starts of with a 10/10 circuit and then gradually fine tunes it (the hardest part), till it sounds more real.
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post #806 of 2415
7/21/09 at 12:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Monkey View Post
I'd take that measurement over a spike in the treble.
Not too enamored with the HD800s??

I posted my impression of those graphs in that thread. Seems a non issue to me. Additionally, the Y-axis units I think make the graph look much worse than it is.

.
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post #807 of 2415
7/21/09 at 1:45pm
Kingwa's thorough response.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5866011-post12.html
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post #808 of 2415
7/22/09 at 1:12am

Hrm. about to take a plunge..

I have about $5000 to spare on, and I was wondering if this is a good decision.

1. DAC: Ref-1
2. AMP: Phoenix
3. Headphone: HD-800 (Balance recabled)

The interconnect from DAC to Amp would be CAST.

I believe I asked this question, but still little confused with how best to connect he source (my pc) to DAC.

I use the Mac Pro, and only sensible solution is either optical cable or USB. With the top of line dac, amp, and headphone, I do not want to gimp the connection from source to DAC either.

I saw Currawang is using some sort of connector in between, but I feel like that's a big compromise in sound. Is there any other solution? If not, is this the best way to get the source to DAC?

Regards
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post #809 of 2415
7/22/09 at 1:25am
I think A-GD is coming out with REF3 which is basically a decoder USB-Coax/Optical converter featuring the same DSP chip as REF1 (different software though) - maybe you can take a look at it too.
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post #810 of 2415
7/22/09 at 1:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandchak View Post
I think A-GD is coming out with REF3 which is basically a decoder USB-Coax/Optical converter featuring the same DSP chip as REF1 (different software though) - maybe you can take a look at it too.
Thanks for the info. Hrm. i wonder if the performance/sound is compromised with Ref3. If it is, I rather get the some sort of converter in between as a temporary means, and wait for the other alternatives later.
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