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Where is the correct location for a volume control in the signal chain?

post #1 of 13
3/22/09 at 7:17pm
Thread Starter 
Assuming a simple 1-source system (transport->dac->amp->transducer), which situation is more desirable:

1. DAC with volume control so it sends a smaller signal to the amp, which leads to less output.

2. Amp with adjustable volume so that it amplifies less, leading to less output.

Basically, should the volume control be on the DAC, the Amp, or does there have to be a pre-amp in between? It seems like dedicated pre-amp between the DAC and the amp for a 1 source system isn't worth it, since extra circuitry + extra cabling = degraded sound.
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post #2 of 13
3/22/09 at 7:27pm
IMO it's always been the preamp's job. Integrated amplifiers and headamps naturally have their preamps integrated so there. I reason it by that that by feeding larger signal from the source the cable noise and other unwanted features are kept in minimum.
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post #3 of 13
3/22/09 at 8:49pm
For digital I would reason that it should be done before the DAC.

For analog record, after the signal has been RIAA EQ'ed.
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post #4 of 13
3/22/09 at 11:58pm
I agree with progo

source (so the DAC, in this case) -> preamp (which gives you volume control, tone control, frequency attentuation, etc) -> amp

an integrated amp or reciever simply puts the preamp and amp together, hence "variable volume control on the amp", and generally this is "better" (from an audiophile POV) because each device is more "isolated" or whatever (instead of it all sitting in one box)
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post #5 of 13
3/23/09 at 1:00am
volume control in the digital domain is a mistake as it decreases the bit depth, which decreases resolution...
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post #6 of 13
3/23/09 at 1:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by feckn_eejit View Post
volume control in the digital domain is a mistake as it decreases the bit depth, which decreases resolution...
I don't think we're talking about adjusting the digital signal itself, but adjusting the volume output of a digital source
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post #7 of 13
3/23/09 at 1:14am
Volume control on my forehead, connected to my brain ftw!
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post #8 of 13
3/23/09 at 1:24am
Between the source and the amp. You don't have to have an active preamp - there are any number of passive ones on the market. Those are primarily a source selector and an attenuator.

If you have a DAC with a volume control or a headphone amp with a volume control (almos every headphone amp is integrated, by the way) then you already have a preamp circuit in the chain. It doesn't degrade things much, at least the good ones don't.
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post #9 of 13
3/23/09 at 7:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Erik View Post
If you have a DAC with a volume control or a headphone amp with a volume control (almos every headphone amp is integrated, by the way) then you already have a preamp circuit in the chain. It doesn't degrade things much, at least the good ones don't.
Indeed! But having two preamps in the chain is redundant at best and detrimental at worst. I'd try to keep the number of preamps in 1 per chain. Luckily some DACs can be made to put out fixed line out and if not, some integrated amps act like just power amps.
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post #10 of 13
3/23/09 at 12:28pm
For the person with a good preamp, are there any headphone amps that have a fixed gain? That is, are there any headphone amps that forgo putting in a volume knob?

I am experimenting with using the Sonic Euphoria Passive Line Controller between my DAC and my Aural Audition headphone amplifier (which does have a volume pot). I know this is a little crazy, but the Aural only has one input and no tape loop outs. Plus, there is a somewhat large distance between the clicks on the Aural's volume pot, so the Sonic Euphoria allows me to fine tune the volume. So far, I am getting excellent results.
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post #11 of 13
3/23/09 at 12:32pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Erik View Post
Between the source and the amp. You don't have to have an active preamp - there are any number of passive ones on the market. Those are primarily a source selector and an attenuator.

If you have a DAC with a volume control or a headphone amp with a volume control (almos every headphone amp is integrated, by the way) then you already have a preamp circuit in the chain. It doesn't degrade things much, at least the good ones don't.
I thought that passive line controllers were bad? I made a thread a while back about getting a B22 with a fixed gain so that I could just use a passive line controller instead, and was told it was better to just have the B22 have a volume knob and forego the passive line controller because of impedance issues
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post #12 of 13
3/23/09 at 2:52pm
Transport -> DAC -> Pre-amp (volume control) -> amplifier
If combined units I prefer a combined pre-amp and amplifier. In either case the volume control will have to be in the analog stage.
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post #13 of 13
3/24/09 at 9:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fryguy8 View Post
I thought that passive line controllers were bad? I made a thread a while back about getting a B22 with a fixed gain so that I could just use a passive line controller instead, and was told it was better to just have the B22 have a volume knob and forego the passive line controller because of impedance issues
I believe you are right on this. I thought a passive attenuator is only acceptable when you use very short cables after it.
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