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24bit vs 16bit, the myth exploded! - Page 207

post #3091 of 3100
Quote:
Originally Posted by FFBookman View Post
 

You can't ABX test for music quality.

 

ABX test is poison to the way we consume music.

 

Complete nonsense.

 

If you can't hear a difference between A and B then by definition they are inaudibly different.

 

If there was a "night and day" difference between 24 and 16 bit audio, people would have no problem passing an ABX test.

 

Your argument is bordering on ludicrous.

post #3092 of 3100
Quote:
Originally Posted by FFBookman View Post
 

No free lunch.  128k bitrate doesn't sound like 256k. That sounds worse than 320k. That sounds worse than 600-1400k bitrate (CD). That sounds worse than 24bit files which can push nitrates as high as 4000k.

 

Again, a nonsense argument. Increased data rates may MEASURE better but at some point they will stop SOUNDING better to the human ear as the limits of human hearing are surpassed.

 

All that matters to humans is the minimum format required to achieve that. Any more data is just wasted bandwidth.

post #3093 of 3100
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamode View Post
 

 

Again, a nonsense argument. Increased data rates may MEASURE better but at some point they will stop SOUNDING better to the human ear as the limits of human hearing are surpassed.

 

All that matters to humans is the minimum format required to achieve that. Any more data is just wasted bandwidth.

Unfortunately we are not all Übermensch. :blink: Neil Young must be very disappointed of me.

post #3094 of 3100
Quote:
Originally Posted by FFBookman View Post
 

Then buy a couple things at 24bit and after digesting it for a few weeks come back here and tell me how you can't hear any difference at all.  Then I'll say "sorry" for you and move on, I suppose.

 

He already told you that he couldn't hear the difference between 14 and 16 bit in a test, so you can deliver your apology now.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FFBookman View Post

 

These are very difficult problems, this 3D listening. Much harder than waveform math.

 

More nonsense. I'm beginning to sense the presence of a troll.

post #3095 of 3100
Quote:
Originally Posted by FFBookman View Post
 

Do you care that your results are useless because your ears can't do direct comparison tests with music quality?

 

LOL, you do realize that you suggested a few posts ago that listening to 16 and 24 bit files side-by-side would reveal a big difference, right?

 


Edited by lamode - Today at 4:19 pm
post #3096 of 3100
Quote:
Originally Posted by FFBookman View Post
 

 

But my 65 year old father in law and the rest of his friends he's played it for all hear 24bit improvement on the pono player. One guy heard it in 5 seconds, said "it's like the whole thing". His other friend, also in his 60's, said "it's like being in a recording studio".

 

Oh good grief, this isn't funny any more. Please stop trolling.

post #3097 of 3100
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamode View Post
 

 

Oh good grief, this isn't funny any more. Please stop trolling.

You should see him carrying on in the I love Pono thread. :rolleyes:

post #3098 of 3100
Quote:
Originally Posted by FFBookman View Post
 

I find it's soundstage suspect, it's center undefined, and it's mid-high's completely unnatural and crispy. Its sub-lows are OK but it's mid-lows (like bass guitar or standup) are weak.  So producers worked ways to compensate for this.  Also, are you really going to hear a 24bit advantage if all your plug-ins operate at 16bit, if all the samples are 16/44 and if most of your digital instruments all create 16/44?  No.

 

You forgot to add that the relative humidity goes up, a distinct 4kHz peak is audible, and that if there is a full moon, the treble sound-stage is compromised, and if the power generation station which feeds the recording studio is nuclear, the mid bass slows down, (except for the first Wednesday of every month of course!) and that if anyone in the recording studio is wearing a digital watch, there will be a high-frequency pulsating noise which only golden-ears can hear, and if the mixing desk sits on a carpeted floor, the bass will sound woolly, and if there is blue wallpaper in the studio, vocals will sound more forward, and if the singer is weather leather shoes, there will be less sibilance, and if the recording studio is more than 200 metres above sea level, the midrange will sound lifeless, and if any of the microphone jacks are chrome plated, there will be a high frequency ringing, and if there is an airport near the recording studio, there will be more jitter, and if there is a polypropylene capacitor anywhere in the circuit, even digital circuit, the dynamic range will be reduced by 0.7dB.... Did I miss anything?

post #3099 of 3100
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamode View Post
 

 

You forgot to add that the relative humidity goes up, a distinct 4kHz peak is audible, and that if there is a full moon, the treble sound-stage is compromised, and if the power generation station which feeds the recording studio is nuclear, the mid bass slows down, (except for the first Wednesday of every month of course!) and that if anyone in the recording studio is wearing a digital watch, there will be a high-frequency pulsating noise which only golden-ears can hear, and if the mixing desk sits on a carpeted floor, the bass will sound woolly, and if there is blue wallpaper in the studio, vocals will sound more forward, and if the singer is weather leather shoes, there will be less sibilance, and if the recording studio is more than 200 metres above sea level, the midrange will sound lifeless, and if any of the microphone jacks are chrome plated, there will be a high frequency ringing, and if there is an airport near the recording studio, there will be more jitter, and if there is a polypropylene capacitor anywhere in the circuit, even digital circuit, the dynamic range will be reduced by 0.7dB.... Did I miss anything?

Yes, Iran has secret plans to make portable nuclear reactors to power Ponos.

post #3100 of 3100
Quote:
Originally Posted by manbear View Post


Sorry buddy. It's exactly correct. There is nothing magical or different about the instrument noise you're talking about. Sound is sound and it's as simple as that. All of it can be sampled the same way (by your ears too, not just by ADCs).

If you don't believe me, explain how your ears can physically hear these sounds that are impossible to sample.


I'm not a math expert at all but I've always thought that this condition in Nyquist theorem:

"Strictly speaking, it only applies to a class of mathematical functions whose Fourier transforms are zero outside of a finite region of frequencies"

means that Nyquist theorem only applies to periodic functions (Natural noise is not a periodic function, it has no waveform).

Of course, I can be wrong.

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