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The Leben CS300XS Thread - Page 139

post #2071 of 2101
Quote:
Originally Posted by msg1979 View Post

Hello in this thread!

I´ve been spending days reading it. 138 pages is a lot  smily_headphones1.gif Good stuff inhere...


Here is a picture of my cs300 from 2006 and my cs300xs from 2014. I took them today. I wanted to upgrade to a cs300xs but I can't get used to the more "contrasted colors" of the front. The green color is much more green, and the gold is more shiny gold on the cs300xs compared to the old cs300.
I couldn't find anything in this thread about the colour differences, so just want to pt it inhere smily_headphones1.gif

Personally I prefer the CS300. I think it much more aesthetic and old school looking compared to the "bling bling" cs300xs. 
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a57/MSGDiller/WP_20140507_16_34_13_Pro.jpg

Here is the back panel... the cs300 is also my personally favorite here
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a57/MSGDiller/WP_20140507_16_35_59_Pro.jpg

Here the top panel:
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a57/MSGDiller/WP_20140507_17_02_45_Pro.jpg


Sorry about the links, my account don't have permission to use the "image button"


I think both amps look very nice I have the blingy one. Raaf I like the Leben with speakers too. I use it to drive my zu super soulflys. I tried the Leben with my newly acquired AKG 712 I have to say they are a match made in heaven. Lots of great synergy more so I perceive than with my TH900 which really shine on my Bakoon (Jap version) h/p amp.
post #2072 of 2101

@Ardilla,

The bass is not bad at all but I use a REL Q201 active sub for more bottom.

At the moment i'm working on a notch filter for a flatter response, I did spend quite some time to end up with a (dsp) EQ setting that I was happy with

:

Alltough not very practical in size, I love the sound from those huge baffles and I was suprised to hear so much more details than I was used to with boxed speakers .

 

@mrtim6 ,

I never heard of Zu Soul Superfly's but they sure look promising .

I assume they got the aditional tweeter right

I was experimenting with aditional tweeters with Philips AD5200M drivers but I never succeded in getting it right in a open baffle.

 

Anyway, as far as the Leben CS300 concerns, I never had a better amp and have no intentions to look for one either .

post #2073 of 2101

Hello.

 

I need some opinions here!

 

Right now I´m testing Dacs and Cd players on my Leben cs300 (with phillips mini watts) and Proac D15. I want to fine tune my sound and was hoping a couple of units could do he trick

 

I´m totally confused..

 

 

I´m using

- Metrum Octave mini nos (they compare this one to EMM dacs and dacs 10 times more expensive!)

- Metrum Quad mini nos

- Rega Apollo 35th anniversary edition

- Pioneer pds-702s (my old cd player from my teen years)

 

I have tested with a/b comparison in 2 inputs

I have tested whole tracks then changed

I have tested different music, from good acoustic to electronically and complex music

 

Tested Dac vs Dac, Cd player vs Cd player, Cd Player vs Dac, Dacs with both cd players as transport... Done that the last two days...

 

 

I Hear no difference at all. No matter what unit I use I have the same sound.. :confused_face_2:

 

The perspective, definement, 3d imaging, sound, warmth are the same no matter what I do! My Girlfriend that I often use to put words on the sound she listens too, can't hear any difference too..

 

I really don't get it.. When I changed to the mini watts I heard a difference immediately.. Sound was more floating, more defined, more smooth...But Chaging between these 4 units and I can't hear anything difference..

 

I took one of the dacs to a friends home. He uses a setup with Kef 107 with a Proton amp and a Denen DVD player (one of the expensives ones)

We both heard a difference, the Metrum Quad was more smooth and defined than the Denon!

 

But in My setup.. Nothing happens...

 

The good news is that I don't have to spend money, because I can use my pioneer

The bad is that I really don't get it!

 

Can anyone give me some inputs?


Edited by msg1979 - 5/23/14 at 9:43am
post #2074 of 2101

I have noticed that effect too, not as strong as you describe, but the differences are more subtile when changing input gear compared to transistor amps where there's more difference noticeable  .

The reason for that ?

I have no clue .

post #2075 of 2101
Because with most tube amps the inherent inaccuracies and variation in reproduction are such that any more subtle variation such as between sources are by comparison so small that they get lost in the background.
post #2076 of 2101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenophon View Post

Because with most tube amps the inherent inaccuracies and variation in reproduction are such that any more subtle variation such as between sources are by comparison so small that they get lost in the background.

 

... as a solid state kind of guy would have put it..... 

 

I generally find it harder to hear the difference between dacs on headphones than with speakers. I guess it has something to do with the listening room, dampening effects etc. 

post #2077 of 2101
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardilla View Post
 

 

... as a solid state kind of guy would have put it..... 

 

I generally find it harder to hear the difference between dacs on headphones than with speakers. I guess it has something to do with the listening room, dampening effects etc. 

Actually, I'm not negatively disposed towards well-built tube amps.  I've been in Europe for the past week and have 3 good ss amps and my modest DV 337 tube amp here.  Guess which one has been getting most head-time.  But hey, it's a fact of life that if all you want is perfect signal reproduction/amplification, even well built tube amps are an order of magnitude less 'accurate' than good ss.  If they sound better is a totally different discussion, my point was that if you're trying to distinguish between ripples in a pond (small variations between ss sources) then it's easier if you're not standing in a gale (higher distortion with a tube amp).

 

I like tubes, busy picking an opt for a 45 or 6L6GC-based SE amp I'm going to build this summer to drive my HE-6, but there's no sense in denying the light of day.

post #2078 of 2101
Lots of people would agree with you, and quite a lot would disagree...

But that aside, tell us more about thethe tube amp for the HE6? The HE 6 can sound gorgeous with the Leben on some music, but often gets too soft.
post #2079 of 2101

Well, at the moment I'm using a suboptimal tube solution with my HE-6, being my DV 337 tube amp with Tung Sol 6SJ7 driver tubes and a 7236 power tube, it's a dual mono design and output is stated by the manufacturer as >2 WPC but nothing about into which load so pretty meaningless.  I know the trend for the HE-6 is to use much, much more but believe me, it nevertheless sounds nice and listening to classical music at moderate levels, the volume switches are currently at 10 'o clock,  anything more than 12 would imo be too much for most people.  I purchased the amp used a year ago and it's beyond any doubt the best audio investment I ever made, financially speaking (paid it 400 USD, customised and upgraded with higher specced components).

 

I have to tell you that the way I like my sound is highly dependent on my mood and the music (virtually only classical, I should be ashamed to be so picky even within one genre) I'm listening to.  Small violin ensembles or solo violin / piano pieces I like a slightly warm and more relaxed sound.  Large ensembles or fast-paced music I like crisp and tight.  But what I value above all is clarity.  If this sounds like I should really listen to ss amps, well..no.  A tube amp brings something extra (maybe 2nd order harmonics, who knows) that ss doesn't give me.  But what I absolutely dislike is back ground humming or a loose, unfocused, 'syrupy' sound. Some people really like this, I respect their opinion but to me that's not the sound of tubes, it's the sound of a badly designed tube amp.

 

So I'm going to try and build myself something...ordered the Tubelab pcb boards for their Simple SE amp and the standard SE, more info http://tubelab.com/designs/ The SSE is just a warmup.  Ideally I'd like to run the amp with a 45 power tube as that presents the sound in a way that I like it:  clear with a slightly forward/warm midrange.  But I don't think it'll deliver sufficient power, at least not without pushing it over its limits.  Next candidates are the 2A3 power tubes (essentially a double 45 in one enclosure) OR I might go the whole hog and select a 300B power tube.  But I'm an amateur builder and still fretting over the options.  Every choice entails a compromise and a different choice of power transfo, driver tubes and certainly output transformers to get the best sound without using feedback.  What does't help either is that all those output transfos are geared toward an 8 Ohm (an occasional black sheep 16 Ohm or one 32 Ohm thrown in) load.  If you start considering the load that the tube prefers, the headphone...there's a million variables involved and one drowns in the details so I guess it's time to stop running all kinds of simulations and just to build a couple of things and see if they produce glorious sound or black smoke.  I'll stay away from >2.5 kUSD Lundahl silver wound opt's until I've got a stable design running.  This is all about the power tubes, I didn't even touch upon the drivers or the merits of tube vs ss rectification.

 

I'll let you know how it all works out, it's gonna be a long, hot summer.

post #2080 of 2101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenophon View Post

...

I'll let you know how it all works out, it's gonna be a long, hot summer.

Thanks for sharing - please let us know how you're gonna work this out. Have you visited this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/529873/amps-that-can-drive-the-hifiman-he-6-planar-headphones ? Those guys are totally dedicated, haha - but someone running tubes for th HE6 would be a welcome variation ,)

post #2081 of 2101
I read the amps that drive the HE-6 end to end :-). Twice. Lots of wisdom, lots of speculation. After playing around with speaker amps myself, my personal conclusion is that (with ss) it can be done but it's not just a matter of throwing watts at the cans, I'm convinced that many people are actually getting inferior results vs when they'd drive them with an 'underpowered' headphone amp. My V200 with 2.75 W into 50 ohm gets them to within a very small distance of where my Pioneer receiver or F5 get them. The power thing with the HE-6 is a bit overhyped imo but oh well... A lot also depends on the music one listens to and the volume.

Wil keep you posted on the tube project, building 'a' tube amp that will drive them is not very hard but I'm looking to a custom made design, specifically for theHE-6. Audio notes kits offer an interesting buildefs kit for the HE-6 but I'd like to go for a different approach (opt SET, no feedback). But if you start tinkering you quickly end up in the area where everything starts to matter and it takes a lot of time, not to mention cash if you decide to go flat out with stuff like silver wire ougput transformers etc. Not to mention ending on the wrong end of the diminishing returns curve. Will keep you posted after consrruction of a first-cheap-prototype.
post #2082 of 2101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenophon View Post
 

Actually, I'm not negatively disposed towards well-built tube amps.  I've been in Europe for the past week and have 3 good ss amps and my modest DV 337 tube amp here.  Guess which one has been getting most head-time.  But hey, it's a fact of life that if all you want is perfect signal reproduction/amplification, even well built tube amps are an order of magnitude less 'accurate' than good ss.  If they sound better is a totally different discussion, my point was that if you're trying to distinguish between ripples in a pond (small variations between ss sources) then it's easier if you're not standing in a gale (higher distortion with a tube amp).

 

I like tubes, busy picking an opt for a 45 or 6L6GC-based SE amp I'm going to build this summer to drive my HE-6, but there's no sense in denying the light of day.


Dear Mr Xenophon,

I agree with you, that if all you want is perfect signal reproduction...then the SS amp is more accurate. And as nearly all signals today are compressed, boosted, digitally enhanced one-dimentional contrived noise that is in no way real to life and contains absolutely no presence, then yes, that crap is more accurately amplified by SS. Valves may add even order harmonics in the form of distortion, which may round out some of the digital nasties making them less irritating, but for presence, and a relaxing listen, try old vinyl records recorded before 1972, played over a reasonable valve system (front and back) through good speakers. Compare such, if you want, to a CD of the same music played through the finest CD player and SS amplification you can find, Krell for instance, and you will discover that modern digital recording (compression and dubbing too) more than the type of amplifcation, is responsible for the majority of complaints we have with our systems.  "There's no sense in denying the light of day".

post #2083 of 2101
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoroastra View Post
 


Dear Mr Xenophon,

I agree with you, that if all you want is perfect signal reproduction...then the SS amp is more accurate. And as nearly all signals today are compressed, boosted, digitally enhanced one-dimentional contrived noise that is in no way real to life and contains absolutely no presence, then yes, that crap is more accurately amplified by SS. Valves may add even order harmonics in the form of distortion, which may round out some of the digital nasties making them less irritating, but for presence, and a relaxing listen, try old vinyl records recorded before 1972, played over a reasonable valve system (front and back) through good speakers. Compare such, if you want, to a CD of the same music played through the finest CD player and SS amplification you can find, Krell for instance, and you will discover that modern digital recording (compression and dubbing too) more than the type of amplifcation, is responsible for the majority of complaints we have with our systems.  "There's no sense in denying the light of day".

You're preaching to the choir :smile:

 

I listen almost exclusively to classical (and some blues/jazz).  Most classical recordings are fortunately no victim to the loudness wars and dynamic range is typically large, as is the attention paid to the recording quality.  I admittedly don't have a turntable and vinyl but do own a largish (digital) collection of  remastered 78 rpm recordings dating back to the '30s.  When I say 'remastered' I don't mean 'doctored', it's all there, warts and all.  To the point that even on my tube amp I simply can't listen to it with my HD-800 and enjoy the music.  About harmonics, btw:  it's generally said that even harmonics are pleasant and uneven unpleasant.  But people like Nelson Pass who did some informal testing are adamant that it's simply a question of some people preferring even order over uneven (third) harmonic, with the uneven sounding generally more crisp and 'direct'.  As long as you stay away from significant fractions of higher (un)even harmonics you should be fine.   Tubes favour even harmonics but a lot comes into play, the load line and tube selected can have a dramatic effect on the % of 2nd harmonic distortion for instance.  I'm drowning in this stuff at the moment.

 

I'll don my hair shirt, shave my head and sprinkle ashes on it guys.  Truly, honest to whatever deity you believe in:  I've nothing against tubes, my initial remark was purely technical.  

post #2084 of 2101

Okay, Positivity. I have not read this entire thread. My CS300 with HD800 does not hum.

I live in Brooklyn, which is noisy, but late at night, tucked in behind Prospect Park, as I am here,

it is quiet.  

post #2085 of 2101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenophon View Post

I read the amps that drive the HE-6 end to end :-). Twice. Lots of wisdom, lots of speculation. After playing around with speaker amps myself, my personal conclusion is that (with ss) it can be done but it's not just a matter of throwing watts at the cans, I'm convinced that many people are actually getting inferior results vs when they'd drive them with an 'underpowered' headphone amp. My V200 with 2.75 W into 50 ohm gets them to within a very small distance of where my Pioneer receiver or F5 get them. The power thing with the HE-6 is a bit overhyped imo but oh well... A lot also depends on the music one listens to and the volume.

Wil keep you posted on the tube project, building 'a' tube amp that will drive them is not very hard but I'm looking to a custom made design, specifically for theHE-6. Audio notes kits offer an interesting buildefs kit for the HE-6 but I'd like to go for a different approach (opt SET, no feedback). But if you start tinkering you quickly end up in the area where everything starts to matter and it takes a lot of time, not to mention cash if you decide to go flat out with stuff like silver wire ougput transformers etc. Not to mention ending on the wrong end of the diminishing returns curve. Will keep you posted after consrruction of a first-cheap-prototype.

 

Totally agree =)

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