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Pioneer PL-50 Turntable - Page 3

post #31 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keithpgdrb View Post
among the other things I need for the table, I need to get a new rubber turntable mat. the one on it it warped. OR. is there any way to flatten it out? I was thinking of putting it in the oven for a little bit. carefully monitored of course.
not sure about that at all. KABUSA sells the original heavy rubber Technics one which would be the closest to the original but modern mats made of silicone and acrylic and thiungs of this sort are better at deadening platter resonances although can get pretty expensive.
Funk Firm's Acromat and sound Dead Steel's Isoplatmat are well regarded as are Herbie's Way Turntable Mats.
the cheapest route would be to get a thin cork tile and cut around your existing mat with a scalpel.
post #32 of 67
First of all, I would like to say how happy I was to stumble across this thread. I was just online looking for a possible replacement cartridge for my PL-50 that I inherited from my dad, and found this site.

I've been getting into vinyl for the last couple of years, and have been kicking around the idea of replacing this turntable. But I love it! It does have some issues, though, and I was hoping someone could help me out with them.

First off, and most frustratingly, if I don't lower the tonearm VERY slowly when I play an album, it clicks back up and resets to the "cut/off" position. I don't know what could be causing this, but I would LOVE if someone could help me fix it.

Second, the tonearm meets resistance when playing too far toward the center of an album. I can't even listen to "My Girl" by the Rolling Stones from their Flowers LP because it's too far in on Side A. Very frustrating.

I have the turntable running into a Yamaha HTR-5890. I have to turn it up higher than usual when listening to an album, but do I need a separate pre-amp as well?

Any other maintenance tips, or any help in general would be greatly appreciated, and I'm definitely going to check out the Denon DL-110 that has been recommended. Thanks in advance, and keep up the good work!
post #33 of 67
I also just noticed that it's running about a half-step too fast as well. (That's one note up, for any non-musicians ) Is this a belt or motor problem, as those are the only two things I could think of it being?
post #34 of 67
You found the manual here right? Pioneer PL-50 Owners Manual | Vinyl Engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by devinthedude57 View Post
First off, and most frustratingly, if I don't lower the tonearm VERY slowly when I play an album, it clicks back up and resets to the "cut/off" position. I don't know what could be causing this, but I would LOVE if someone could help me fix it.
Second, the tonearm meets resistance when playing too far toward the center of an album. I can't even listen to "My Girl" by the Rolling Stones from their Flowers LP because it's too far in on Side A. Very frustrating.
This sounds like the auto shut off mechanism is out of kilter. It's probably a metal or plastic cog attached to the tonearm somewhere underneath and when this reaches a certain point it mechanically flicks a switch which raises the tonearm. If you remove the platter (where the vinyl sits) and have a look at what happens underneath when you move the arm around then you should be able to figure out whats goin on.
The cuing issue sounds like it's part of the same mechanism. Are you talking about the lever or hand cuing? if it's the lever then it could also be a belt that's stretched or cog that's wearing out or something. It might be simpler just to disconnect the autoshut off and learn how to hand cue if that's the case as you would perhaps need to find someone with specialised turntable repair skills otherwise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by devinthedude57 View Post
I have the turntable running into a Yamaha HTR-5890. I have to turn it up higher than usual when listening to an album, but do I need a separate pre-amp as well?
This is totally normal but you are correct insofar as it's a pre-amp issue. Are you comparing it to a digital source you have plugged in there maybe? It depends on the design of the amp but some have controls which allow you to fine tune the input gain sensitivity. Look in the set up menus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by devinthedude57 View Post
Any other maintenance tips, or any help in general would be greatly appreciated, and I'm definitely going to check out the Denon DL-110 that has been recommended. Thanks in advance, and keep up the good work!
The Denon may make the issue of having to turn up the turntable worse as it's a lower output so maybe should think about getting a separate phonostage like the Cambridge Audio 640P which will sound a lot better than an av receivers phonostage.

Otherwise have you reoiled the bearing? this will make things a lot quieter if it's never been done. Remove the platter and clean out the bearing well with isopropyl and cotton buds to remove the old oil. Industrial swabs for cleaning tape heads made out of plastic are actually more suitable than cotton buds if you can find them. I think 3M make them. Then replace the oil with 5ml of synthetic motor oil like Redline or Mobil one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by devinthedude57 View Post
I also just noticed that it's running about a half-step too fast as well. (That's one note up, for any non-musicians ) Is this a belt or motor problem, as those are the only two things I could think of it being?
Most likely a belt problem. Has the belt been replaced? Sounds like it's to tight perhaps?
post #35 of 67
Thread Starter 
I thought the denon 110 was a high output cart?
post #36 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keithpgdrb View Post
I thought the denon 110 was a high output cart?
The Denon is a high output moving coil cartridge. The output is rated by Denon at 1.6mv, although it probably outputs 2.0mv or slightly more.
In comparison a typical moving magnet cartridge (e.g. Audio-Technica AT120E) outputs 5.0mv.
Although they will both work through the MM input of a phono preamp, you would have to turn the volume up higher with the Denon than the AT to achieve the same sound level.
post #37 of 67
Sorry about taking so long to respond. Strep throat is a b****, and I haven't had a chance to mess with the turntable. Anyway, thank you so much for getting back to me so quickly. I did some adjustments, and things are going much better.

I took your advice and opened up the bottom of this beast and saw which part you were talking about. I think I loosened the screw too much, though, because now it's not resetting automatically on some records. It has (somewhat) alleviated the lever-drop-reset problem. I still can't drop it down too fast, but I don't have to do it as slow as I was before.

As far as the speed is concerned, I replaced the belt about 4 years ago when I got the turntable. I replaced it with a belt I ordered online that said it would fit this exact model. Maybe I need to get a bigger(?) one, because it is definitely playing the records at about 103.33% faster than they should be.

The Denon DL-110 is still on my wishlist, even if I have to get the separate preamp for it. The manual for the Yamaha HTR-5890 says:

"PHONO jacks are for connecting a turntable with an MM or high-output MC cartridge. If you have a turntable with a low-output MC cartridge, uses an in-line boosting transformer or MC-head amplifier when connecting to these jacks."

Will I still need the Cambridge Audio 640P?

My next step is going to be cleaning and oiling the bearing, and seeing how that goes. Thanks again for all your help!

(PS, I didn't need to download the manual for the turntable because I still have the original!)
post #38 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by devinthedude57 View Post
As far as the speed is concerned, I replaced the belt about 4 years ago when I got the turntable. I replaced it with a belt I ordered online that said it would fit this exact model. Maybe I need to get a bigger(?) one, because it is definitely playing the records at about 103.33% faster than they should be.

The Denon DL-110 is still on my wishlist, even if I have to get the separate preamp for it. The manual for the Yamaha HTR-5890 says:

"PHONO jacks are for connecting a turntable with an MM or high-output MC cartridge. If you have a turntable with a low-output MC cartridge, uses an in-line boosting transformer or MC-head amplifier when connecting to these jacks."

Will I still need the Cambridge Audio 640P?
It definitely seems as if your belt is too small.

You will not need a phono preamp as it appears that your receiver has one built in. I can assure you, though, that the 640P will be a step up from the one in your receiver.
post #39 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by devinthedude57 View Post

As far as the speed is concerned, I replaced the belt about 4 years ago when I got the turntable. I replaced it with a belt I ordered online that said it would fit this exact model. Maybe I need to get a bigger(?) one, because it is definitely playing the records at about 103.33% faster than they should be.
Often replacement belts you buy from many online retailers arn't a perfect fit. Most people probably wouldn't notice or care about it being a tiny bit fast as you need pitch perfect hearing
Also sometimes manufacturers specs change or get mixed up in the deapths of time. Consider how many different spec turntables are out there and sometimes it just beomes a nigh on impossible task to be completely accurate.
Try turntablebasics.com, as they have a comprehensive range of sizes and go to the trouble of getting things right. Even with them don't always believe the quoted size for reasons mentioned. Take the trouble to measure your current belt (there are instructions on there about how to go about this) and ask for a couple of sizes bigger. They will send you a few at a time to try out until you get one you are happy with.
It's worth going to these lengths as if the belt is too tight it will strain the bearing and cause uneven wear and additional noise.

Otherwise it sounds like you are headed in the right direct vis-a-vis the automatic adjustments. Ideally you need to put the turntable on a stand without a bottom so you can access the fine adjustments while it's all set up to play. It could have just been knocked out of alignment with being moved around or else drifted with age.

Like Nightowl says the Cambridge phonostage isn't necessary but will be a big upgrade over the one in the reciever.
post #40 of 67
Thread Starter 
Just to keep you updated. the turntable seems to be working fine. I am running it through a vintage Sony TA 3650 that has not one, but two turntable ports!! lol. I got the amp for free, so I figure that was the best way to get this going! After some deep cleaning and help from the forum, the amp is functioning properly as far as I can tell. If I find that it actually isnt sounding up to par, I'll look into the separate phono stage.

SO.. at this time, I have a working vintage amp, a working vintage turntable, and...... the old cart that came with the table.

My Denon 110 has been ordered, as well as a stylus force gauge. I am really looking forward to getting this up an running, sounding as it should. Guess I should start reading some more threads on how to clean my vinyl!
post #41 of 67
The solution on page 2 (Uncle Bubba's Brew, i think) of this thread has been working for me:

Record Cleaning Systems (including one DIY!) - Music Electronics Forum

If you search for DIY record cleaner, there will be instructions for some simple and not-so-simple Nitty-Grittyesque vacuum cleaning systems. Right now, I haven't built one yet, so I just use an old cotton baby diaper to wipe down the solutions at every stage of the cleaning process. I also have the VPI 16.5 brush and velvet brush to really get the grip out. It makes a world of difference on any vinyl, new or old.
post #42 of 67
Thread Starter 
here is another odd question. if you look at the last picture that I posted (the side view of the tone arm) there is a little screw between the base where the head connects to the arm, and the arm rest. what is this to? is this something I should unscrew and clean? when the table is on, and I touch this screw, I hear a little static. I want to iron this out before I instal my denon 110, which arrived today. also, is the head supposed to be able to rotate? when tightening the head, sometimes I tighten too much, and the head rotates a little.

I'm getting down to the nitty gritty here!! Thank you all! I would be listening to cassettes if it werent for you guys.
post #43 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keithpgdrb View Post
here is another odd question. if you look at the last picture that I posted (the side view of the tone arm) there is a little screw between the base where the head connects to the arm, and the arm rest. what is this to? is this something I should unscrew and clean? when the table is on, and I touch this screw, I hear a little static. I want to iron this out before I instal my denon 110, which arrived today. also, is the head supposed to be able to rotate? when tightening the head, sometimes I tighten too much, and the head rotates a little.

I'm getting down to the nitty gritty here!! Thank you all! I would be listening to cassettes if it werent for you guys.
If your locking collar on your arm is rotating when you attach the headshell to the arm, then you are overtightening the headshell. If it does this fairly easily, the plug in the arm that the headshell attaches to is a bit loose. It is not supposed to rotate once the headshell level is set. It is slightly adjustable so that the headshell will be parallel to the platter.

This goes to your first question. Are you talking about the small set screw on the underside of the arm just behind the headshell? If so, do not remove or loosen this screw. It locks the plug that the headshell attaches to. If your plug rotates too easily, you can tighten this screw a touch. Be very careful not to overtighten since some arms also attach the internal arm ground wire at this point and overtightening can break the connection.
post #44 of 67
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightOwl View Post
If your locking collar on your arm is rotating when you attach the headshell to the arm, then you are overtightening the headshell. If it does this fairly easily, the plug in the arm that the headshell attaches to is a bit loose. It is not supposed to rotate once the headshell level is set. It is slightly adjustable so that the headshell will be parallel to the platter.

This goes to your first question. Are you talking about the small set screw on the underside of the arm just behind the headshell? If so, do not remove or loosen this screw. It locks the plug that the headshell attaches to. If your plug rotates too easily, you can tighten this screw a touch. Be very careful not to overtighten since some arms also attach the internal arm ground wire at this point and overtightening can break the connection.
I would not say the headshell moves easily, I was probably just overdoing it. sounds like that part is ok.

Yes, I was referring to the set screw on the underside. I dont really know if it is loose or not, as I have not attempted anything with it. I was more concerned with the static I heard when touching it. But, if the ground wire is indeed attached to it, I suppose that would explain the bit of static. For now, I think I will leave it alone.

So, I am indeed going to try to instal the cart tonight. what stylus pressure do you recommend for my arm with this cart? (ive not read the instructions yet, sorry) I would defer to you anyway though.
post #45 of 67
If you're talking about the DL 110, the recommended tracking force is 1.6g to 2.0g. I would start at 1.8g and see how it sounds. Enjoy!
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