WOO Audio 3+ experience - Page 9

Golden Monkey, wow!  That's a great collection of tubes.  I thought i had gone a little overboard when I first purchased the WA3 buying a bunch of tubes to try out.  Very impressive.  I just wish you were closer to Cinci

Quote:

Originally Posted by nbourbaki 

Golden Monkey, wow!  That's a great collection of tubes.  I thought i had gone a little overboard when I first purchased the WA3 buying a bunch of tubes to try out.  Very impressive.  I just wish you were closer to Cinci

Lol...thanks!  I love that the Woo uses the 6DJ8 family, but I hate that those tubes are some of the most boutiquey/overpriced out there.  And I hate that I'm never satisfied with what I have.  It's a dangerous combination, lol.

I've got the local Cinci meet at the end of November, but based on your recommendation, I'll send the amp back to Jack for the Blackgates after the meet.  I hear you on the tubes.  It took me a while to find a 5998 which was fantastic and then I bought a Cryo'd 1962 TS 7236 that turned out to be less than the 5998 on all counts.  It quickly get's expensive.  I haven't spent that much on the drivers yet, but that's coming.

Don't wait too long if you want Jack to recap for you...he told me he has very few left.  I suppose you could source them yourself and send them with the amp, but I don't know...

I bought the OTHER cryoed TS 7236, lol.  I already had a non-cryo one, but wanted a spare.  I like the 7236 a lot...crazy amounts of bass, but not as articulate as the 5998.  Nice sparkling top end, but less controlled than the 5998.  I too think the 5998 is the best choice, but the 7236 has its moments...I think it is a good choice to pair with more detail-heavy tubes like Siemens or Teles, and it's great if you want to boom some techno.

Have fun at the meet!  I purposely avoid going to them.  It's not that I wouldn't like to meet folks and play with gear, it's just that I would spend stupid amounts of money, and I'd have gear-envy something awful.  I love my rig just the way it is now, and would hate to come home and wish it was a Beta 22 or something, lol.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golden Monkey 

Have fun at the meet!  I purposely avoid going to them.  It's not that I wouldn't like to meet folks and play with gear, it's just that I would spend stupid amounts of money, and I'd have gear-envy something awful.  I love my rig just the way it is now, and would hate to come home and wish it was a Beta 22 or something, lol.

LOL That's very true

@nbourbaki I'm looking forward to hear about your recapped Woo...I think I should start saving up for it :-)
 

realmassy, I'm just glad you found a set of tubes that allowed the WA3 to shine.  It's a great little amp.  I first heard it at this year's CanJam and as soon as I got home, I was on the net looking for one.  I'll get the conversation with Jack going and as soon as the meet is over, the amp will be on it's way to an upgrade.  I'll be sure to post my impressions after I get it back. 

The thing that keeps me going back to meets is getting to hear systems before spending a bunch of money and not being happy with the outcome.  Before CanJam I thought the WA6 was the amp for me.  After the meet, it was clear (to me at least) that the WA2 or WA3 was the right amp.  Nothing really wrong with the WA6, but the combination of the WA2/WA3 with the Beyer T1 was just crazy good.  I'm still saving up for the T1.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nbourbaki 
...the combination of the WA2/WA3 with the Beyer T1 was just crazy good.  I'm still saving up for the T1.

Those Beyers are on my short list as well :-)

Tonight I tried the Sylvania 6dJ8, but I still prefer the stock JAN 6922, and not by a short margin.

Sylvania, at least mine, are very very clear, too bright for me. I was listening to Tchaikovsky's symphony no.5 and strings were actually screaming, basically covering the whole orchestra. Also the stage was very flat, and unrealistic.

With acoustic jazz (Esbjorn Svensson Trio) the sound was very boring and missing completely the lower frequencies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by realmassy 

Those Beyers are on my short list as well :-)

 

Tonight I tried the Sylvania 6dJ8, but I still prefer the stock JAN 6922, and not by a short margin.

Sylvania, at least mine, are very very clear, too bright for me. I was listening to Tchaikovsky's symphony no.5 and strings were actually screaming, basically covering the whole orchestra. Also the stage was very flat, and unrealistic.

With acoustic jazz (Esbjorn Svensson Trio) the sound was very boring and missing completely the lower frequencies.

 

How many hours have the Sylvanias been burned in?  I usually don't bother to make a final judgement on wether or not I like a tube's sound until it has at least 25 hours or so.  After they burn in, you'll notice a dramatic difference in soundstage and response, along with lower lows and higher highs.  "New" tubes always sound so constrained to me...
 

*sigh*...my Black Gates are now in the "man, these sound like crap!" phase.  I'm at about 40-50 hours in, and they have gone from sounding clean and revealing to now sounding a little bloated in the mids and I seem to have misplaced my top end.  Although the soundstage is huge, things seem a little disorganized within it, like the singer is too close, the drummer is in the back corner, and the other guitarist is in the closet somewhere...I tried swapping in my Siemens 6922s, which are very "solid state" sounding, with real airiness and openness, but they felt more like warmish Mullards instead.  Everything sounded great last night, but today it sounds like I'm using my HD650s without an amp...I can't wait for them to swing back around again and settle down.

I know the feeling. Went through the same thing. Almost a year later I'm still rocking it everyday. Blackgates, Furutech Rhodium IEC, Audio grade fuses, gold plated tube bases, WBT top of line RCA jacks. Then all the tubes, GEC Bendix, Amperex, Tesla, ETC, ETC. Still love my Woo 3+ modified.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golden Monkey 

Quote:

How many hours have the Sylvanias been burned in?  I usually don't bother to make a final judgement on wether or not I like a tube's sound until it has at least 25 hours or so.  After they burn in, you'll notice a dramatic difference in soundstage and response, along with lower lows and higher highs.  "New" tubes always sound so constrained to me...
 

That's true, I didn't think about burn in.

But now I'm wondering if there could be some technical, electrical differences between those two tubes.

ECC88 (6DJ8) and E88CC (6922) are not the same exact tube, and maybe the amp will work better with the 6922.

Does that make any sense?
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG POPPA 

I know the feeling. Went through the same thing. Almost a year later I'm still rocking it everyday. Blackgates, Furutech Rhodium IEC, Audio grade fuses, gold plated tube bases, WBT top of line RCA jacks. Then all the tubes, GEC Bendix, Amperex, Tesla, ETC, ETC. Still love my Woo 3+ modified.

      What's with the "audiophile grade" fuses anyway?  Do they make any difference in sound quality?  Are they really worth it?  I'm really skeptical about these...on some level I understand why they are a good idea, I just don't see them really making an audible difference...if they were in the signal path, absolutely, but on the AC... (and yes, I am reading the 11 page thread on them, but...I'm still skeptical).
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by MooBin 

This does the trick - at least for me:

 

5998 Tungsol 1963 with 2 Philips ECC88 Holland "A" frame getter 1975

 

to be had at tubeworld.com

 

    I love the Philips 6DJ8/ECC88s, but I don't really like the A frame variety...they sound just a bit flat and sterile to me, compared to the older styles (halos or D getters).  They are a better value for sure  but I definitely prefer the older ones.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by realmassy 

That's true, I didn't think about burn in.

But now I'm wondering if there could be some technical, electrical differences between those two tubes.

ECC88 (6DJ8) and E88CC (6922) are not the same exact tube, and maybe the amp will work better with the 6922.

Does that make any sense?
 

     6DJ8:

ELECTRICAL DATA:

MAX RATINGS:

Heater voltage 6.3V
Heater current 365mA
Max plate voltage (Ia=0) 550V
Max operating plate voltage 130V *
Max plate dissipation 1.8W
Max plate current 25mA
Max grid voltage -50V

TYPICAL OPERATION:

Heater = 6.3
Heater Current = 365ma
Vplate = 90V
Vgrid = -1.2V
Iplate = 15ma
Rplate = 2650 ohms
Gm = 12500
Mu = 33
 

It's my understanding that they are electrically the same tube, however the 6922 is the "premium" version of them - tested for low noise, low microphonics, long life, and more closely matched sections, usually with gold plated pins.  The 7308/E188CC is just like a 6922, but with VERY tight specifications, and something on the order of 10k hours life.  In theory, their (the 7308s) sections should match perfectly. I find 6DJ8s in general to have a "juicier" sound to them, a little less smooth than a 6922, but in a pleasant way.  6922s are very clean and revealing, for the most part.  I have same-construction (same factory too, Munich), almost the same year Siemens 6922 and 7308, and they sound identical, if I'm being honest.  I used to think the 7308 had a greater sense of focus and airiness, but after a few hundred hours of each, they are the same, lol.  Maybe that's just a testament to Siemens' high standards though...
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golden Monkey 

*sigh*...my Black Gates are now in the "man, these sound like crap!" phase.  I'm at about 40-50 hours in, and they have gone from sounding clean and revealing to now sounding a little bloated in the mids and I seem to have misplaced my top end.  Although the soundstage is huge, things seem a little disorganized within it, like the singer is too close, the drummer is in the back corner, and the other guitarist is in the closet somewhere...I tried swapping in my Siemens 6922s, which are very "solid state" sounding, with real airiness and openness, but they felt more like warmish Mullards instead.  Everything sounded great last night, but today it sounds like I'm using my HD650s without an amp...I can't wait for them to swing back around again and settle down.

LOL @ quoting myself...anywa, things are swinging back around again, after 36 more hours of burn-in.  I left my least favorite/goofiest tubes in (RCA JAN 6080 / Voskhod 6N1Ps), and let them listen to Led Zeppelin 1 on repeat for a day and a half...swapped them out for 5998/7DJ8 combo and all seems right in the world again.  Nuance, musicality, detail, and spaciousness are all back, and better than before...I'm sure the caps will flail around for a while longer before settling down, but right now the rig sounds fantastic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golden Monkey 

LOL @ quoting myself...anywa, things are swinging back around again, after 36 more hours of burn-in.  I left my least favorite/goofiest tubes in (RCA JAN 6080 / Voskhod 6N1Ps), and let them listen to Led Zeppelin 1 on repeat for a day and a half...swapped them out for 5998/7DJ8 combo and all seems right in the world again.  Nuance, musicality, detail, and spaciousness are all back, and better than before...I'm sure the caps will flail around for a while longer before settling down, but right now the rig sounds fantastic.

damned...this place is evil!! You really make me want to upgrade the capacitors...I should take a deep breath and count to 100.

Woo 3 tube rollers, please help me to spend my money: what would you choose between:

1) 6DJ8 / ECC88 Amperex Bugle Boy, made in Holland

2) 6DJ8 / ECC88 Amperex, 1960s, white HP label

3) 6DJ8 / ECC88 Amperex, A-frame, dimpled disc getter

4) 6DJ8 / 7308 / ECC88 Sylvania made

5) Amperex 6922 PQ - Gold Pin

6) something else :-)