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post #2206 of 2219
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikoss View Post

Considering that the 421A, 2399, and 5998 are the same tube, paying large amounts for the WE is really silly.


They can all have the same domino plates but you will/can find differences in the internal construction between them. Top getter, bottom getter, duel getters differing mica  etc

post #2207 of 2219

Yea they aren't the same the 421A sounds better and is different despite what everyone keeps saying on here. They just don't own one. Oh but let me add I'm not sure they're worth paying the big bucks for one over the 5998. They aren't worth 3 times what 421A cost , or double.


Edited by hdtv00 - 7/2/15 at 10:49pm
post #2208 of 2219
http://www.head-fi.org/t/506133/visual-evidence-tung-sol-5998-western-electric-421

I don't doubt that people have heard 421A's that do sound better, but I also don't think they all sound better. It's the same tube.
post #2209 of 2219
Discussed at length and not the same tube. The specs are different, specifically, much higher transconductance.
http://www.westernelectric.com/spec_sheets/421A.pdf
http://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/127/5/5998.pdf

Now, they may have been manufactured on the same line, and even in the same batches and cherry picked. But they are different by spec.
Edited by GrindingThud - Yesterday at 7:47 am
post #2210 of 2219

Thanks for the info, I had been using one lately that is  very nice indeed. 

However being a tube roller and reading that some people like the Sylvania 6080 I had to try them.

I must say they are impressive in the lower registers and give the impression of a full and rich overall sound.  I will see how they stack up against the Mullards I have.  These Sylvanias have a metal banded porcelain base and are totally gettering covered at the top of the tube with Halo getters.  They came in a  60's 70's fonted yellow box but this may be meaningless.  So far I am quite pleased. 

post #2211 of 2219
Quote:
Originally Posted by adeadcrab View Post
 

do they have dots in the flashing, making noises after a few days burn in? etc


Please feel free to give them a call.

 

There are a lot of different 5998s, and none of mine has microphonic problem.

 

The problem of the 5998 is loose glass. But it usually won't affect the sound quality.

post #2212 of 2219
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikoss View Post

http://www.head-fi.org/t/506133/visual-evidence-tung-sol-5998-western-electric-421

I don't doubt that people have heard 421A's that do sound better, but I also don't think they all sound better. It's the same tube.

 

I do wonder if the cathode plate coating is different on some my WE 421a's and early 5998s' they have a grainier powdered coating which has a matt finish compared to the smoother shiny black coating on some of my 5998's

 

Note the different types of getter and mica plate coating examples. Personally I prefer the sound of the early 5998 clear tops to the WE421a. Only the 5998 clear tops (which are early production 5998's late 1950's I believe) and the WE421a have clear tops. Regular 5998's from the 60's onwards (those commonly available) be it the single top, bottom or duel getters have silver flashing on the tops, not clear. 

 

Warning gratuitous tube porn ahead  :D 

 

Some clear top 5998 and WE421a for comparison

 

Different textured chemical coatings on plates?

 

 

Different getters

 

 

 

Different shapes top micas

 

 

 

 

 

Common 5998 with top flashing

 

 

 

I do prefer the GEC myself over the 421a and am still on the look out for some with MOV and MWT branding to add to a slowly growing collection. 

 

Worth noting the GEC 6080 and the GEC 6as7g both have identical structured plates that came off of the same factory line but differing getters and getter locations while the 6080 has similar sonic traits the 6as7g version is without doubt sonically on a high plain.

 


Edited by JamieMcC - Yesterday at 9:54 am
post #2213 of 2219

Yea Mikoss every time someone says they are the same they don't own one and they always , always point to that thread lol. Which frankly if you read the entire thing clearly shows I think they are indeed different tubes.

 

I don't agree with the last post saying they sound way different though. But it's ok, but to say they're the same is just plain wrong I think.

post #2214 of 2219
My point is that they're all made by Tung Sol and they're all the same tube. The 421A's may sound better since they may be selected 5998's, but they certainly aren't a completely different tube. I'd equate it to Siemens stamping CCa on selected E88CC's.
post #2215 of 2219

I don't agree , they aren't selected 5998's. All that thread is you linked to is bunch of people who never had one and aren't willing to spend $200 for one saying "Oh well they're just the same as the 5998". Seriously and every person who actually has one saying they are different. I have four 5998's and a 421A sitting right here. I'm pretty sure I know.

 

But anyway it's ok. One thing I will say on tubes. People stop going to these online stores. They are overpricing tubes so bad it's insane. You can get them on ebay just look for good sellers man. Someone in here asking $65 for an A frame Orange Globe they bought from tctubes.com...seriously $65. WTF. I have 4 of them or more at ALL under $20 each, and well under $20 too. These online stores from what I see pray on people. Don't drink the cool-aid people. It's not about this threads tube topic but still applies.


Edited by hdtv00 - Yesterday at 1:24 pm
post #2216 of 2219
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikoss View Post

My point is that they're all made by Tung Sol and they're all the same tube. The 421A's may sound better since they may be selected 5998's, but they certainly aren't a completely different tube. I'd equate it to Siemens stamping CCa on selected E88CC's.


But it is plain to see they are not all the same tube there are some substantial differences in construction between them and that's just the clear top versions if you start to look at the 5998's that are not clear tops then there are four maybe five different versions again and thats not adding in variations like black or grey smooth or shiny  plates!

 

I think at  least five or six differently constructed 5998 types have passed through my hands so far all dimple plate made by Tungsol. Some sound the same and some do not. The main difference I find is in the presentation which in only a few words might be described as some seem sweeter or more musical in presentation than others. I suspect the reputation the WE421a has garnered is somewhat base on one particular type of older tube and not ones of later production something which is a common occurrence. All of them are excellent top tier tubes anyhow.

 

The WE421a do look funky with the yellow embossed lettering and those little lightening logo's, surely everybody knows yellow branded tubes sound better than anyother colour except that is may be orange :rolleyes: 


Edited by JamieMcC - Yesterday at 1:30 pm
post #2217 of 2219
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieMcC View Post



The WE421a do look funky with the yellow embossed lettering and those little lightening logo's, surely everybody knows yellow branded tubes sound better than anyother colour except that is may be orange rolleyes.gif  

If you take the little sticker from the GEC and put it on the WE, sonically you get the best of both worlds. Store in a Tung Sol Box for an added boost in soundstage!

In all seriousness though I'd love a 421a - whatever it's story, sound or mysterious origins it's a liitle unique slice of history - an artifact, if you like - very cool I think. For me tubes have always been about more than just the sound. I dare say I'd get a lot of pleasure from just looking at it.

Those pics of your collection you posted earlier were very very nice Jamie - do you find any difference between the GECs with straight and curved brown base in your bottlehead Crack?

Cheers,

Jeb
post #2218 of 2219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeb Listens View Post


 do you find any difference between the GECs with straight and curved brown base in your bottlehead Crack?

Cheers,

Jeb

 

I couldn't tell the difference between them Jeb.

post #2219 of 2219
Cool, thank you!
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