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For 6AS7G tube rollers here ..... - Page 80

post #1186 of 3799
Quote:
Originally Posted by DutchGFX View Post
 

Thanks, interesting though considering their popularity in OTL's that noone has decided to produce new tubes.

Cost, plain and simple.  Cost of the tooling but especially the cost of labour as I don't think you could automate the process.  And the fact that making/doping the plates etc requires the use of some seriously hazardous/environmentally unfriendly chemicals.  Couple that to an altogether limited market for 6AS7(G)/6080 and the fact that there are still NOS versions available with all the associated nostalgia and premium those will command even if the newly produced ones are objectively better.

 

Apparently it's worth it for the more expensive/rare tubes such as the 300B if you can produce them in a low wage country.  The present owners of the Tung Sol brand currently even produce 6SN7 I believe....but it's a volume thing with that tube.  You need low production cost and either high margin and/or high volumes and the tubes we're talking about don't seem to offer that.

post #1187 of 3799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenophon View Post
 

Cost, plain and simple.  Cost of the tooling but especially the cost of labour as I don't think you could automate the process.  And the fact that making/doping the plates etc requires the use of some seriously hazardous/environmentally unfriendly chemicals.  Couple that to an altogether limited market for 6AS7(G)/6080 and the fact that there are still NOS versions available with all the associated nostalgia and premium those will command even if the newly produced ones are objectively better.

 

Apparently it's worth it for the more expensive/rare tubes such as the 300B if you can produce them in a low wage country.  The present owners of the Tung Sol brand currently even produce 6SN7 I believe....but it's a volume thing with that tube.  You need low production cost and either high margin and/or high volumes and the tubes we're talking about don't seem to offer that.

 

I live about a mile away from the old bendix/honeywell factory that was used to make the bendix red bank tubes (specifically the over-engineered 6080WB tubes) and even in the late 1990's they were still dealing the contamination left over by that factory.  Apparently they were the largest commercial polluter in the area.  

post #1188 of 3799
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJS242 View Post
 

 

I live about a mile away from the old bendix/honeywell factory that was used to make the bendix red bank tubes (specifically the over-engineered 6080WB tubes) and even in the late 1990's they were still dealing the contamination left over by that factory.  Apparently they were the largest commercial polluter in the area.  

 

It was all worth it :rolleyes:

post #1189 of 3799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenophon View Post

Cost, plain and simple.  Cost of the tooling but especially the cost of labour as I don't think you could automate the process.  And the fact that making/doping the plates etc requires the use of some seriously hazardous/environmentally unfriendly chemicals.  Couple that to an altogether limited market for 6AS7(G)/6080 and the fact that there are still NOS versions available with all the associated nostalgia and premium those will command even if the newly produced ones are objectively better.

Apparently it's worth it for the more expensive/rare tubes such as the 300B if you can produce them in a low wage country.  The present owners of the Tung Sol brand currently even produce 6SN7 I believe....but it's a volume thing with that tube.  You need low production cost and either high margin and/or high volumes and the tubes we're talking about don't seem to offer that.

Right. No one is going to tool up to make new versions of a tube where you can buy a box of 25 NOS Svetlanas for $250 easily. I've seen crates of 100 for under $500 before.
post #1190 of 3799

I think a better question is if you were going to tool up to make a tube that isn't being made today, why would you do it to make a 70 year old design as-is?  The 6080 family isn't used because it is the best sounding tube, but rather because it is (almost) the only family of tubes with the impedance to get the job done without OPTs. 

 

Emission Labs created an entirely new family of directly heated triodes (the 20/30A/30B) using modern design and research techniques.  If demand for OTL style amplifiers truly continued to grow then a call to actually engineer and design a new tube that is an improvement over the 6080 family is the thing to call for putting into modern production. 

 

Of course there is inherent risk.  It's likely going to be made by a single company, and if that company fails you cannot get tubes for your amp anymore.  This is the reason why the EML 30 didn't make its way into my DHT amp.  It would have sounded amazing, but there is no guarantee EML is around for the long haul and the idea of hoarding tubes that cost $600 a pair "just in case" is more than a little out there.

post #1191 of 3799
Yeah that would be quite brutal if you couldn't use an amp because EML went out of business. I was going to use the 20A for my STEM amp since the school pays for all the stuff I need lol. I'm gonna end up using 6SN7 and 300B with the 6080 follower though. It would have been cool to use the EML proprietary tubes but 300B has so many current production models from $100-$500 so there are a lot of good options.

Side note, any of you ever used Golden Dragon Tubes from PMComponents? They seem to have a good selection of current production input tubes
post #1192 of 3799
Quote:
Originally Posted by DutchGFX View Post

Yeah that would be quite brutal if you couldn't use an amp because EML went out of business. I was going to use the 20A for my STEM amp since the school pays for all the stuff I need lol. I'm gonna end up using 6SN7 and 300B with the 6080 follower though. It would have been cool to use the EML proprietary tubes but 300B has so many current production models from $100-$500 so there are a lot of good options.

Side note, any of you ever used Golden Dragon Tubes from PMComponents? They seem to have a good selection of current production input tubes

I'm going out on a limb here but check out that 6SN7 driver / 300B combo, iirc some heavy hitters at diyaudio have presented arguments as to why that wasn't a glorious combo and it resulted in a sound that was not the best the 300B was capable of.  Problem is I don't recall the specific amp topology they were discussing.  If I happen to stumble over it I'll post the link, read what I posted fwiw and in the knowledge that I'm no expert.

post #1193 of 3799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenophon View Post
 

I'm going out on a limb here but check out that 6SN7 driver / 300B combo, iirc some heavy hitters at diyaudio have presented arguments as to why that wasn't a glorious combo and it resulted in a sound that was not the best the 300B was capable of.  Problem is I don't recall the specific amp topology they were discussing.  If I happen to stumble over it I'll post the link, read what I posted fwiw and in the knowledge that I'm no expert.


A 6SN7 cannot properly drive the miller capacitance of the grid of a 300B.

I know there is allot of 300B amps out there that use a 6SN7 driver. And that is

because that is what people want and company's produce what people want.

I use a #10 or a C3g to drive 300Bs to get best sound.

post #1194 of 3799
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2359glenn View Post
 


A 6SN7 cannot properly drive the miller capacitance of the grid of a 300B.

I know there is allot of 300B amps out there that use a 6SN7 driver. And that is

because that is what people want and company's produce what people want.

I use a #10 or a C3g to drive 300Bs to get best sound.

 

and boy does it sound great!

post #1195 of 3799
Thanks for the info! How bout the 2A3 from a 6SN7? Or a 6922? I know the 300B and 2A3 can both drive the 6080 so that's not an issue since the 300B will just be used for extra voltage gain.

The amp is going to have 12AU7, 6922, and 6SN7 switchable tubes (just changing cathode and plate resistors)
post #1196 of 3799

I broke the guide pin of my GEC 6080 :( . Can it still be used or should I scrap it ?

 

 

post #1197 of 3799

It's everything but a problem. Just take care to fit it the right way.

post #1198 of 3799
Quote:
Originally Posted by G600 View Post
 

It's everything but a problem. Just take care to fit it the right way.


how do I know which is the right way ? will it harm the amp if I fit it the wrong way while trying ?

post #1199 of 3799

Look at the broken section, you have an alignment "tit", which has to match the socket.

post #1200 of 3799

By broken off section do you mean the broken pin ? well that has actually broken in to few pieces. Will it harm the amp if I plug it in the wrong way, If not I can do some trial & error plug ins.


Edited by punit - 5/18/14 at 12:41pm
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