Apple in-ear Headphones - Not Impressed - Page 4

No. I didn't make comments that Shure should stick to making microphones, but if I had have done, it would have been pretty obvious it was said in frustration. And if name calling is immature, then ganging up on someone with another member is plain cruel, ("this is where Jonathan and I stepped in??") and his comments didn't justify that. This is supposed to be a friendly forum, and bullying someone for giving their opinions on a product they didn't like is wrong. All it does is put people off from speaking up, and then the forum becomes a complete shambles because no one dares to say they don't like something because of all the flaming that comes afterwards. He gave his honest opinion, and the continued hostility and bullying that followed wasn't justified. If you're unhappy with the way someone expresses their views, why not keep it to a PM?

I agree, but with qualification. We are not within our rights to legislate rules and conventions of discourse. However, such rules and conventions exist. Words have accepted meanings, etc. It seemed to me like Art meant X, but said Y instead. Or had a peplexing way of saying Y. I think people should be clear in the propositions they make. Is this so wrong? If we think that A is better than B but realize that its a matter of idiosyncratic preference, is it so hard to qualify our opinion? If we feel duped but realize that others might think it's a good deal, ought we not qualify our expression?

Point taken. Now the roles are reversed. You think oarnura and I have broken some conventions of discourse, and (ironically) are telling us off in public. (NB: Exactly what we did with Art) I ask that no vigilante forum member step in to defend oarnura and I at this point. I enthusiastically accept this suggestion, and will endeavour to improve on my internet etiquette. That was so hard, was it?

Showing public support for someone is impossible to do in a PM...

So maybe after this, you'd like to keep it in a PM?

All I'm saying in support of the OP, is that I don't think it's anyone's place to determine how people should qualify their adjectives when talking about a pair of earphones. We each of us use adjectives that best suits our impressions of the particular item we're talking about at the time. To sit and think about whether the adjective we've chosen passes an unwritten 'code' of respectability is just silly, and really not necessary on an informal forum like this. Plus it would kill the fun factor as well. I could better understand your point of view if Art was writing a professional review about them, but he wasn't. He was just sharing his thoughts and frustrations, something we're all free to do without having to 'qualify' adjectives. No one needs declarations such as... ... we're just here for fun. And while I accept you're of the opinion that his views were misleading, I just think you could have got your message across in a less confrontational and critical way, and preferably in a PM, that's all.

Oh, and if you have anything to add, feel free to PM me!

Summary of all the drama in this thread:

Someone with limited IEM experience says a good pair of IEMS pretty much suck and they're only good for fanboys. (misleading)

oarnura and jonathan take offense and defend their product and eventually it escalates to personal attacks.

soozieq's motherly instincts tell her to defend the one being ganged up upon

Here we are.

Now Art, you should probably realize you didn't go about giving your opinion in the best way possible.

oarnura, you're a smart guy but take it easy. It's just teh internets.

jon, not everyone knows the proper way to express their opinion without offending others. We should educate them, but be a little more polite about it.

Okay great, everything's cool now. Continue.

Yes, we know that now. My point was that you could've expressed yourself better. Also, to many people, liking CX300 is not the best way to show that ou have good taste in headphones...

May be you should really heed your own advice. You seem to think it is ok to categorically call a product other people like "horrible", lending no credence to thier opinions. Then going on to call them "Apple fanboys".

But you want others to respect your opinion. Seriously! Do you see the double standard here?

That is my only issue.

Soozieq, While I can appreciate your need to step in and defend some one. You need to understand that people need to understand how to qualify an opinion. It is basic etiquette in any discussion especially one where subjectivity is every thing.

This has gone on too long. I bow out of it.

Artmuss, you've been buying headphones for 20 years and you are in college? Adult night classes, I hope. Had to say that.

While I certainly agree that someone has a right to their opinion (that's a no-brainer), people have a right to disagree and articulate (in this case, type) why. No?

If you think the CX300s are a fantastic canal phone, more power to you. But I really don't agree that words like "greedy" and "duped" add much to the conversation. Who duped you? Head-Fi'ers? Apple?

I got into similar trouble (as far as voicing a strong counter-opinion) when someone posted that the Westone 3s sounded like crappy $5 ear buds, a few months back. To me, that view was way over the top, even though it was a personal opinion, and I said as much. Someone then PM'd me, saying my strong responses "ruined" their Head-Fi "fun." All I was doing was using equally strong language to dispute what was to me an extremely hostile position, one that didn't line up with reality. To me, taking saying that such an extreme position had very little merit in the overall discussion of Westone 3s. Heck, if you don't like them, get your money back, whatever. Saying they were on par with a $5 pair of canal phones was ridiculous, in my opionion. Why can't I say as much?

To me, if you are going to come out with guns blazing, then you might expect someone to shoot back. And why not? That's the nature of debate and discussion. The more intense and subjective the attack, the more you will face an intense reply. Sooz, while I agree that Head-Fi is about having fun, it's not just about that, it's more. And there is nothing wrong if spirited debate ensures, debate that goes beyond basic fun. No doubt you will disagree, but that's fine too. Neither of us has a lock on exactly what Head-Fi.org is "supposed" to be. I'd say trading intense views on gear is one thing it should be, not all. And that sometimes goes beyond just having fun. It just does.

If the OP wanted it to be all peace and love, then I'd suggest keeping your guns in your holster next time, and try to articulate a response that is more in line with someone who is studying sound engineering. In other words, enlighten us on why the CX300s are a better phone, using details, examples, etc. Don't just rant about Apple (and I am not a major Apple fan or fanboy, trust me).

This needs to be said in public. The bottom line is I understand the need to keep it cordial.

However, Newcomers need to know that this is a subjective hobby. If they would like their opinions to be respected they need to respect other peoples opinions too.

So far after all this Artmuzz is still obstinate that his lack of respect for more experienced members' (4+ members) opinions is acceptable because he has a right to express his opinion.

If he wants to so easily disregard others opinions and be obstinate no cordial discussion can take place.

Your support isn't helping get that point across.

What is the point of asking for other's opinions if one is just going to disregard them anyway? Then call them fanboys for disagreeing with him.

You condone such behavior as "friendly" and acceptable?

I agree I was a little harsh. But so far I have seen no reason to stop being harsh.

I was expecting "Ok since these are getting so many positive reviews on head-fi may be these are not to my taste. I think I'll return them thanks for the help". Would that have been so hard?

Instead this is the response I get:

So that response is friendly?

If you want to support such behavior that is fine. I think I am done contributing to Head-fi if that is the case. Thank you very much.

Well said, tstarn. And with that I bow out.

@oarnura: I got a chance to listen to ADDIEM again recently. I still prefer my ER-6i. Take that! <grin>

I haven't had a chance to listen to the ADDIEM again and I still prefer my SCL4 and Phonak PFE.

Wait no that was not an "Apple fanboy" response. I am a pure disgrace to Apple Fanboydom...

Pipe down guys! Everything is gonna be ok...

Just take them back and tell them that they have 'developed' a fault, It's always worked for me in the past, It's not like they test 'em. The only possible fly in this ointment is if you've gone over the 14 day thing