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why is Denon's D7000 pricing going down - Page 2

post #16 of 81
Uncle Erik Cheers re: inform on beach audio!
post #17 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fido2 View Post
Good point Uncle E. I'm hoping this will be the case with the HD800...wink wink
I'm sure it will be.....eventually.

Question is: how long are you willing to wait?
post #18 of 81
Until you stop posting that, and start posting that you can't afford all these headphones, and then like 100's of posts. Then they must lower the prices
post #19 of 81
I am curious for the D7000, but I will soon have the chance to compare it with my JVC DX1000. I found the D5000 "OK", but far from outstanding. Let's see what the D7000 brings...
post #20 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by vvanrij View Post
Until you stop posting that, and start posting that you can't afford all these headphones, and then like 100's of posts. Then they must lower the prices
Good point. Man I sure hope Sennheiser lowers the price of those HD 800's. I just simply cannot afford them. Mr Senn? hello...?
post #21 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by obobskivich View Post
consider the GS-1000 vs RS-2 relationship (which is the same price differential Denon wanted for the D7000 vs D5000), think about how differently those two are regarded, you rarely hear anyone say its the same thing, sans packaging, while the D5000/D7000 is basically the same 'phone (there are minor differences, but we're talking +$200 minor, not +200% minor)
As a D7000 owner I entirely agree with your sentiments considering improvement value, however if you take a close look at retail prices: the D5000 is $699.99 and the D7000 $999.99. It's only a $300 difference, much inline with your last statement.

In other words you're skewing the facts. You're talking about the street price of D5000's vs the retail price of D7000s. When comparing street prices right now the difference is even smaller: anywhere between $150-200.

We all know and all the headphone companies know that their product will be heavily discounted eventually. So knowing that it's an inevitability, they jack up the retail. It's as simple as that.

On top of that, you're getting the specifications wrong: the cans are not identical. The housing is indeed the same (save for the piano gloss finish), but the D7000's have a slightly different driver (again it's a minimal one, but nevertheless a good improvement) and an improved cable.

I can understand your concern of fellow head-fier's getting ripped off, but please refrain from presenting half-truths so people can better decide if the extra ~$200 is worth it.
post #22 of 81
I cannot afford any headphone over 300 it seems, and I won't settle for less quality... OK DID YOU ALL GET THAT!!!!
post #23 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by obobskivich View Post
most other 'phones at a grand (to be blunt) smoke the D7000, at least in the eyes of many reviewers/etc...
I don't believe that you ever addressed this point.

Can you please link to some reviews that compared the D7000 to other $1,000 headphones and found that the competitor "smoked" the D7000?
post #24 of 81

Precisely...

Quote:
Originally Posted by obobskivich View Post
... find the older D2000 vs D5000 threads back in the day around the release, most were arguing that the sound is similar enough...

... they all use the same driver, have the same enclosure geometry, use the same quality of cable and jack, and same earpads...

... the only difference is price, earcups, and the termination of the D7000 cable (oh yeah, and the packaging of the D7000)...

... the earcup differences are between magnesium/plastic/whatever on the D2000 to the wood of the D5000 to the wood of the D7000 (which is more or less the D5000 earcup, with a bit better finishing and its been sealed)...

... now these differences ARE enough to make some changes happen between the 'phones, like I said they are different, but the price gaps are just too extreme, Denon is selling luxury and flash over diminishing returns of audio quality...

... the D7000 lists for around $1000 US, and offers minor cosmetic and functional (for example having a 1/4" termination) improvements over the D5000 which lists for around $600 US, the D5000 currently sells for around $450-$500 new, and the D7000 for around $600...

... that price delta is roughly fair imho (around $100), as the minor tweaks the D7000 offers are benefits (for example they did a better job finishing those cups, so you can't rub the lettering off in a week, and the 1/4 termination is what I'd expect on either 'phone at that price, the packaging is neither here nor there, because like priest said, its about $10 of gimmicks)...

... lets not get into the "these are better than these" or "these are the best headphone" discussions (or the "these are 90% as good as these"), because its all personal preference among the line, the only point I'm really trying to make is that the D7000 is massively overpriced, and bringing the price to $600 is fair...

... like priest said, nobody was biting at a grand...
"Precisely... whatever you said there... yes!"

The market is beginning to realize the D2000/D5000s sound very, very... very... close to the D7000s... and won't support a $500 premium for the D7000s.

And... for the record... the MD5000s sound... "spectacular!"

As, I'm sure the D7000s do! And... I've seen no reviews that suggest the don't sound every bit as good as the best phones available!

Suggestions to the contrary... are simply the result of incredible bias and subjectivity by the author - in the minds of most observers!
post #25 of 81
I think the D7000 is just settling into its real street price. MSRP is a useless gauge because it's artificially set by the manufacturer.

The D7000 has an improved driver over the D5000, it has been clearly stated that the magnet is stronger, which shows up as stronger midbass. Of course, you get a better finish which is obvious, and an improved cable. I think it's definitely worth the extra $130-180 more to pay over the D5000. Denon is not really different from other manufacturers in that a minor tweak hear or there translates to a large increase in price despite small actual incremental manufacturing costs that never explain why the next model up costs so much more.
post #26 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamenthe View Post
As a D7000 owner I entirely agree with your sentiments considering improvement value, however if you take a close look at retail prices: the D5000 is $699.99 and the D7000 $999.99. It's only a $300 difference, much inline with your last statement.

In other words you're skewing the facts. You're talking about the street price of D5000's vs the retail price of D7000s. When comparing street prices right now the difference is even smaller: anywhere between $150-200.

We all know and all the headphone companies know that their product will be heavily discounted eventually. So knowing that it's an inevitability, they jack up the retail. It's as simple as that.

On top of that, you're getting the specifications wrong: the cans are not identical. The housing is indeed the same (save for the piano gloss finish), but the D7000's have a slightly different driver (again it's a minimal one, but nevertheless a good improvement) and an improved cable.

I can understand your concern of fellow head-fier's getting ripped off, but please refrain from presenting half-truths so people can better decide if the extra ~$200 is worth it.
the 7N OFC vs OFC means nothing, unless you buy into cable hype (I don't, prove me wrong, scientifically please)

I didn't know they had made driver changes, but if they have, its probably like Sennheiser making slight tweaks to the HD 650 drivers (the whole "new" vs "old" thing), it doesn't change the overall signature, it just slightly improves it, again, not a major difference (as you said)

I did just take a peek at the MSRP for the D5k and see it at $699, thats absurd as well, I guess what I should've qualified my comparison as, as street pricing, given the D5k was at around $500 while the D7k was at around $1k, which is a $500 premium for something I'd view as a $50-$150 upgrade, now that the prices have come in-line with this, it seems more "fair"

as far as "provide me some reviews where the D7k gets smoked", it isn't about Car & Driver style benchmarks, I'm saying in regards to my personal preference, and a lot of reading around these parts and others (with other ~$1k range 'phones), the D7k's come up short

consider that for around $1k you can also get:

ATH-W5000
K1000
GS-1000
ATH-W11
ATH-W10
vintage RS-1 (or new RS-1)
HE60 (raw phones I've seen at around $1.6k, w/amp puts it over $2k tho, so not entirely a fair comparison)
ESP-950
various entry Stax combos (new and vintage)
HP-DX1000

tell me you still want the slightly tweaked sound of the D2000 for that kind of money...
post #27 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by glitch39 View Post
BeachAudio accepts PP also, so it would be a good protection if there are QC or delivery issues.

Why pay extra for a new Markl D5000 when you can get a stock D7000 for less?
Because some people (Mark) thinks it betters the R10.
post #28 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by obobskivich View Post
the 7N OFC vs OFC means nothing, unless you buy into cable hype (I don't, prove me wrong, scientifically please)

I didn't know they had made driver changes, but if they have, its probably like Sennheiser making slight tweaks to the HD 650 drivers (the whole "new" vs "old" thing), it doesn't change the overall signature, it just slightly improves it, again, not a major difference (as you said)

I did just take a peek at the MSRP for the D5k and see it at $699, thats absurd as well, I guess what I should've qualified my comparison as, as street pricing, given the D5k was at around $500 while the D7k was at around $1k, which is a $500 premium for something I'd view as a $50-$150 upgrade, now that the prices have come in-line with this, it seems more "fair"

as far as "provide me some reviews where the D7k gets smoked", it isn't about Car & Driver style benchmarks, I'm saying in regards to my personal preference, and a lot of reading around these parts and others (with other ~$1k range 'phones), the D7k's come up short

consider that for around $1k you can also get:

ATH-W5000
K1000
GS-1000
ATH-W11
ATH-W10
vintage RS-1 (or new RS-1)
HE60 (raw phones I've seen at around $1.6k, w/amp puts it over $2k tho, so not entirely a fair comparison)
ESP-950
various entry Stax combos (new and vintage)
HP-DX1000

tell me you still want the slightly tweaked sound of the D2000 for that kind of money...
So you came to the conclusion that other 1,000 cans smoke the D7000? No actual reviews? Just your bias opinion, based on what you think that Denon is over charging and ripping people off. (7000) Please show me evidence of this. And how do you know what the upgrades should cost? What is your expertise in this field?
post #29 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by obobskivich View Post
the 7N OFC vs OFC means nothing, unless you buy into cable hype (I don't, prove me wrong, scientifically please)
Everybody manufacturer plays the cable hype game. I could use the same argument against, say Grado, which also charges a premium for better wire in their voicecoils, change in cable, or different foam pads. Of course, you used the GS1000 vs RS-1 argument, which works out in your favor, but what about the rest of the line? They've never even outright said their drivers are any different from model to model, for all we know the RS-2 driver could be exactly the same as the SR125 driver. I'd argue there is very little difference between the RS-2 and RS-1, the SR80 and SR125, for as much as 50% increase in price for what I consider minor tweaks. The objective results bear this out. I'd argue the difference between the RS-1 and the SR125 is the same difference as the D2000 vs D7000

Tell me again why I should buy an RS-1 over a SR80 for 800% increase in price? If anything, the SR80 graph actually looks better (smoother mids-highs)



Quote:
ATH-W5000
K1000
GS-1000
ATH-W11
ATH-W10
vintage RS-1 (or new RS-1)
HE60 (raw phones I've seen at around $1.6k, w/amp puts it over $2k tho, so not entirely a fair comparison)
ESP-950
various entry Stax combos (new and vintage)
HP-DX1000
I always find it hilarious when people bring up vintage products to justify that a particular higher priced new item isn't worth it. Why buy a new 350Z when you can buy a used Porshe 911? Why buy a new Omega when you can buy a used Patek? Let's stick to apples and apples. Some of those headphones sold for a LOT more than what the current price of the D7000 is, and even more if you account for inflation. Frankly I'd rather buy a D7000 with a warranty and that hasn't absorbed the head sweat of somebody else for years thank you.

Quote:
tell me you still want the slightly tweaked sound of the D2000 for that kind of money...
I just placed my order for one, so yes I want a tweaked D2000. I already replaced most of my other headphones with the D2000, so if the D7000 is truly better (something I'll judge for myself rather than looking at some graphs thanks), I'll be happy. I already think the D5000 at $420 is still a good value, and I don't think the D7000 will be a purchase I will regret.
post #30 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by obobskivich View Post
as far as "provide me some reviews where the D7k gets smoked", it isn't about Car & Driver style benchmarks, I'm saying in regards to my personal preference, and a lot of reading around these parts and others (with other ~$1k range 'phones), the D7k's come up short
If in your opinion you don't think that they're comparable with other $1K headphones, that's cool, but I still don't recall seeing this anti-D7000 sentiment you claim is so prevalent.

sweetben, for example, thought that the D7000s were better that the Grados:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/bri...review-383537/

donlin did, as well:
Denon AH-D7000 In The Absolute Sound - Page 2 - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

Soundinista ended up preferring the JVC DX1000 to the D7000, but the JVCs certainly didn't "smoke" them:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/jvc...review-404515/

Skin seems to suggest that the W5000 is in no way superior to the D7000:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/sea...9/#post5285085


Quote:
Originally Posted by obobskivich View Post
consider that for around $1k you can also get:

ATH-W5000
K1000
GS-1000
ATH-W11
ATH-W10
vintage RS-1 (or new RS-1)
HE60 (raw phones I've seen at around $1.6k, w/amp puts it over $2k tho, so not entirely a fair comparison)
ESP-950
various entry Stax combos (new and vintage)
HP-DX1000

tell me you still want the slightly tweaked sound of the D2000 for that kind of money...
Apparently I do because I bought a pair of D7000s, lol.

Seriously, though, I don't see any reason why the D7000s are somehow inferior to their competitors.

As for them sounding little different than the D2000s, even markl says that that is not the case:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/sea...9/#post5288979
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