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Why Oxygen-free copper cables sound no different than ETP copper - Page 4

post #46 of 55
2/9/09 at 6:52am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taikero View Post
I contest that perhaps our measurements of sound pressure waves are inadequate and don't represent what a person actually hears.
I disagree. I think a machine's ability to detect sound (like a thousand dollar mic) far exceeds the human ear in detecting sound.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taikero View Post
A sound that might be harsh to me is soothing to another. What might be engaging and warm to me is bloated, unnatural, and dark to someone else.
Here you are analyzing how a person feels with sounds, which is irrelevant to the argument.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taikero View Post

What I'm saying is that since our measurements don't reflect what people are hearing, our measurements aren't telling us the entire story.
Perhaps not the subjective story.

How about this; we take two people and assume both of them score exactly the same on a professional hearing test. Aside from a very slight difference in how sound interacts with their ears on the way to the ear drum, they will perceive the exact same sound. Maybe it won't make them feel the same -- but I think this idea that a 440hz tone is going to be 254hz for one, and 723hz for another is ridiculous. They might have different opinions of what the exact tone it is -- but none the less, the tone is the same for both.
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post #47 of 55
2/9/09 at 6:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taikero View Post
Exactly! So how then can a measurement of sound pressure waves tell me what I hear?
This is exactly it: they cannot tell you what you have perceived to hear. If such is true, why do you discount perception/mind as a contributing source to what you have heard?

Now take note: if you claim cable X improves high frequency extension, then a measurement device should be able to show that cable x transmits the high frequencies with less roll-off. If the measurement device does not show this, then the change you heard did not come from the sound, it came from your perception of it.
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post #48 of 55
2/9/09 at 7:07am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove View Post
Now take note: if you claim cable X improves high frequency extension, then a measurement device should be able to show that cable x transmits the high frequencies with less roll-off. If the measurement device does not show this, then the change you heard did not come from the sound, it came from your perception of it.
Exactly. That is the conclusion of this whole "cable debate" in my opinion -- we just need a measurement device of some sort to do this accurately.

If I had the resources, I would fund the development of such a device. It would be very simple; a series of input/outputs (for 1/4, 1/8, XLR, etc) where one could connect each side of a cable to loop a signal and test its signal transmission. As a matter of fact, I'm sure something like that already exists.
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post #49 of 55
2/9/09 at 10:16am

Yeah

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liver View Post
Does it really matter?
Sure it matters. If you buy a normal cable you will save a lot of money and get the same sounding results as with a much more expensive one.

If you have enough money, then you can do what you want with it, but there are some people who do not have it.

Plus on the article the op added, the KEY to everything when doing tests is here:

Blind listening tests
From "blind" listening tests, we could hear no difference between test guitar cables made with oxygen-free copper (OFC) and our "normal" guitar cables. Maybe you can, but we can't.

That is what makes a difference. When the only thing you hear is music, and you do not use your sight to make differences.
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post #50 of 55
2/10/09 at 3:50am
I have some 99.x% OFC speaker cable that I've been using for about 6 years with "multimedia" speakers, in clear insulation. It's turning green

I've sometimes wondered how well all these cables in opaque sleeves really age. I mean, it might start out as 99.99+% OFC but how long does it stay that way?
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post #51 of 55
2/10/09 at 4:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu View Post
I have some 99.x% OFC speaker cable that I've been using for about 6 years with "multimedia" speakers, in clear insulation. It's turning green

I've sometimes wondered how well all these cables in opaque sleeves really age. I mean, it might start out as 99.99+% OFC but how long does it stay that way?
If its cheap who knows?
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post #52 of 55
2/10/09 at 4:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by olblueyez View Post
If its cheap who knows?
I think the point is, if it's expensive, who knows People are not going to cut open their cables to find out.
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post #53 of 55
2/10/09 at 4:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu View Post
I think the point is, if it's expensive, who knows People are not going to cut open their cables to find out.
No,,,,,,if its cheap who knows, I never mentioned price.
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post #54 of 55
2/10/09 at 7:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu View Post
I have some 99.x% OFC speaker cable that I've been using for about 6 years with "multimedia" speakers, in clear insulation. It's turning green

I've sometimes wondered how well all these cables in opaque sleeves really age. I mean, it might start out as 99.99+% OFC but how long does it stay that way?
Unfortunately, OFC copper is not going to prevent the copper from oxidation. The copper reacts with air to turn green. Copper in the opaque sleeve will also turn green unless they are completely isolated from air.
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post #55 of 55
2/11/09 at 11:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by olblueyez View Post
No,,,,,,if its cheap who knows, I never mentioned price.
Does that mean we're more likely to know if the cable (value, not cost to us) is expensive?
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