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because like the guy right above me just said, impedance is a small part of the equation

and like has been said in this thread twice (three times now), the Denon's require an amplifier to control them, as they are low impedance and high sensitivity, its very easy to push noise out of them, however you need an amplifier to bring control and restraint to them, making them really open up and show you what they can do

do you feel special having something told to you three times?

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edit: I was beat by wnmnkh and obobskivich in explaining to the op


Because the d2000s require more current than many other low impedance headphones. My d2000s do play out of my sansa fuze. In fact, they can actually play fairly loud if I wish. The problem is they aren't performing at their peak. The bass doesnt extend nearly as deep, and the mids seem a bit more recessed. However, when I plug my d2000s into my icon mobile or 2move, there is a drastic change. Mids move foward quite a bit and the bass really tightens up and extends very low. The highs also smooth out quite a bit.

Compare this to my 60ohm ksc75. They sound great outside of my fuze. There isn't a noticeable roll off with the bass and nothing seems to be missing from the midrange or highs. They also can get plenty loud, although I prefer to listen to pretty low volumes on all of my headphones/iems. Although the d2000 has a lower ohm rating than the ksc75, it really is nowhere near its full potential without a proper source/amp to provide it the current that it needs. The ksc75 on the other hand, don't require as much current and sound great unamped. I'm just using the ksc75 as an example to show how there's more to ohm ratings that determines whether a headphone is underpowered or not. Hope this helps you out in your decision.

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No, it means that I don't buy your explanation.

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you're now #5 to point this fact out to him, just feel like clarifying for goit, this really is the FIFTH time in this entire thread that you've had this explained to you, and the second time you've gotten a lot of good examples supporting the explanation

so in addition to needing a good deal of current (as has been mentioned a few times including this post), noise rejection is the other point, because they're very low impedance and high sensitivity (now the 6th time this has been said), they don't reject noise like high impedance/low sensitivity headphones do (for example Sennheiser HD 600's), so slight hums and ticks in your system will be much more apparent

then of course theres just the basic fact that an amplifier will have higher signal quality than your soundcard can muster, and the D2k's are an entry into high end audio, you want the rest of the components to compliment that, not oppose it

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ok, so just because you can close your eyes and say it isn't true doesn't make it that way, you asked for advice based on facts, thats what you've gotten six times now, I've repeated myself three times for you, another member has agreed, and two other members have provided quite detailed explanations saying the same thing as me

The D2k's don't need an amp They "Want" an amp. They "deisre" an amp. they play better with others.

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Well, this pop science stuff doesn't sound very convincing.

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they "sound like crap" without an amp

no you don't need a discrete amplifier to drive noise out of them, but they certainly are wasted money if you wanna hook them up to your ipod or soundcard directly

The D2000 sounds fine out of my laptop out but it sings when I put it in iBasso D3 or modded Zero DAC.

If I put it in numerical value, I'm hearing only 60% to 70% of the can's true ability out of my laptop's headphone out.

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what pop science stuff?

I've stated the facts quite clearly

the D2000's are very low impedance, and very high sensitivity, what that means (for those of you who have no idea what those words mean ) is that very little electrical power has to go into them for the voice coils to act, they're "efficient" in that sense (like Klipsch loudspeakers are efficient), however this also means that stray power and garbage can get in quite easily, compared to something like AKG K701's, which are medium-ish impedance and fairly low sensitivity, it takes quite a bit of power (comparatively) to get the K701's to move

just because you can move the voice coil doesn't mean its moving how you want it to

you now need to consider controlling that motion

just like you wouldn't pair a Viper's V10 with a Civic's transmission, yeah you say "oh it needed a transmission", but can the transmission actually handle that engine?

the Denon's are in the same boat, you need a power source that has a clean output (meaning relatively free of hiss/hum/buzz/noise/etc (yes, this exists, its a real thing))

in order to get to that clean output, with good control, you have a few options, one of them is a very expensive integrated amplifier/receiver/preamplifier, thats a few thousand dollars and mostly wasted for driving headphones, the other option is a headphone amplifier that can handle low impedance loads, thats a bit more ideal and will probably offer better SQ than most receivers/integrated amps anyways (depending on what we're comparing), at least for driving hp's (because the hp output on most of those boxes is pretty low quality)

your lack of comprehension, or unwillingness to accept the reality of something does not change the truth of it, and if you dont want to accept the sciency explanation (Because its too hard to understand, or because you don't trust me), accept that basically everyone is telling you an amplifier improves sound quality and makes these headphones perform as they are designed to

The D2k's/Gilmore Lite combo works a treat They just don't have the same speed, clarity and punch when not amped IME. Personally, I wouldn't entertain running any of the series straight out of your M-Audio if you want to realise anywhere near their true potential.

Paul

The EM interaction within the chemical makeup of the atoms of the material used to build and supply the power to the amp alter the current and porperties of the electron flow as well as the K shell interactions from EM pulses. filtering out some of the low attenuation faults not easil blocked by the headphones alone. allowing a more pure analog electron flow to excite the magnetic coils of the drivers. causing vibrations and subsequent sound waves

HOWS THAT FOR POP SCIENCE !!

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hows that for spellcheck?

also, you're my hero for today
don't think its possible to take it any further than you have and not bring actual math into it

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X1, D5000 is definitely an upgrade of D2000, its pretty easy to hear~D5000 has a much better bass control... I bought the D7000 after all, it just looks much better and luxury than both D2k and D5k...I love Denon, and if Im gonna spend that much money, I rather get the best.

Just a reminder, don't mod your headphone unless you are really dissatisfied with its stock form. If you mod it, you lose the warranty and some resale value.

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You missed "Porperties"

OOH Math Bad you no say math
me kill math

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damnit.

and yes, math very bad

here we only discuss electrical engineering and physical chemistry