Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Sound Science › Braided Cable
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Braided Cable

post #1 of 24
2/6/09 at 12:21am
Thread Starter 
Would not cable braiding between two different signal carriers cause greater cross-talk than parallel twisted pair (of a carrier and return for each channel at different twist rates)?

People continually mention "Litz braids," but as I brought up in the DIY interconnect thread they have nothing to do with a litz wire and are just a craft braid.

Are their any electrical reasons why the specific braid between different signals used by high end cable manufacturers would cut down on interference?
Reply
post #2 of 24
2/6/09 at 11:47am
Braided wire should reject RFI a little. People on these forums use the term Litz pretty often but in the end it is just braided wire.
Reply
post #3 of 24
2/6/09 at 3:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePredator View Post
Would not cable braiding between two different signal carriers cause greater cross-talk than parallel twisted pair (of a carrier and return for each channel at different twist rates)?

People continually mention "Litz braids," but as I brought up in the DIY interconnect thread they have nothing to do with a litz wire and are just a craft braid.

Are their any electrical reasons why the specific braid between different signals used by high end cable manufacturers would cut down on interference?
It is my understanding that the electrical fields around a braided cable result in a field that rejects rfi/emi. However the downside is increased capacitance.

Dave
Reply
post #4 of 24
2/6/09 at 4:22pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by myinitialsaredac View Post
It is my understanding that the electrical fields around a braided cable result in a field that rejects rfi/emi. However the downside is increased capacitance.

Dave
The amount of rejection wouldn't be as much as if it was two channels of twisted pair though. The whole idea of twisted pair is that any interference affects both sides of the channel equally, canceling itself out. With a braid of 3 or 4 wires, there is less of a guarantee that both the carrier and the return will be equally affected. In any case braiding would introduce channel cross-talk that would be nearly absent using separate twisted pair.

Have any sellers/manufacturers of braided audio cable given well backed explanations why they use braiding as opposed to more traditional shielding techniques (aside from the obvious aesthetics and the lower production cost of not using a jacket).
Reply
post #5 of 24
2/6/09 at 5:07pm
Hum Rejection in Unbalanced Audio Cables

Dave
Reply
post #6 of 24
2/7/09 at 9:08pm
I would also like to hear more about this. The blue jeans explanation doesn't cut it for me. In general unbalanced transmission lines are coaxial - which is the point they make.
But since both channels share the same return path in unbalanced audio, the situation is more complex than they make out.
There are a lot of people who stand behind the braiding method. I'd like to hear their explanations why they think it's the best method.
Reply
post #7 of 24
2/7/09 at 10:49pm
Yeah, Blue Jeans are not in the Power Cables camp. Man, It is a bummer since they make great IC's. I have a few cables that would change a few minds. Tweeking it a bit farther I'm in for that. The Braided Power cable I think may be discontinued,I looked for it and no avail? Just might be me?
Reply
post #8 of 24
2/10/09 at 5:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePredator View Post
The amount of rejection wouldn't be as much as if it was two channels of twisted pair though. The whole idea of twisted pair is that any interference affects both sides of the channel equally, canceling itself out. With a braid of 3 or 4 wires, there is less of a guarantee that both the carrier and the return will be equally affected. In any case braiding would introduce channel cross-talk that would be nearly absent using separate twisted pair.

Have any sellers/manufacturers of braided audio cable given well backed explanations why they use braiding as opposed to more traditional shielding techniques (aside from the obvious aesthetics and the lower production cost of not using a jacket).
That is why the proper way to braid a cable is 4 wires per channel, seperate braids. ie, 2 seperately braided cables, consisting of 4 wires each, 2 signal and 2 return.
Reply
post #9 of 24
2/10/09 at 11:11am
Quote:
That is why the proper way to braid a cable is 4 wires per channel, seperate braids. ie, 2 seperately braided cables, consisting of 4 wires each, 2 signal and 2 return.
I don't know what sense it's supposed to make to have 4 wires for a single channel, but let's just say they are a twisted pair. Having separate pairs like this for each channel is only useful in differential mode (ie balanced operation). For unbalanced this is actually detrimental as the return path is split between multiple wires separated by a considerable distance - also known as an antenna.

It's too bad no one has stepped up to give a scientific explanation of their choice in cable geometry. It really makes me wonder.
Reply
post #10 of 24
3/27/09 at 11:40am
..
Reply
post #11 of 24
3/27/09 at 11:46am
What cable geometry is this ? 3-wire braided for 2 channels and 1 common ground !



The cable length is short, so it might be ok ?
LL
Reply
post #12 of 24
3/27/09 at 12:17pm
It might be ok for DIY stuff or if you feel kinda bored and want to spend some "high-end pocket money" on something that will look like a jewel on your portable rig. But from a "proffesional POV" that thing is a big no-no.

I don't think you'll ever find two signals intermixed with eachother like that in any proffesional setup.

Supposdly, crosstalk can be mesured obgectively with the proper aquipment. Aquipment that most of us head-fiers don't have. Without those mesurments there's no way to tell on what scale peeps are getting ripped off.

It'll be more "ok" when this interconnect will have a braid like this for each signal. What you see there now is an economical/convinient work around STEREO cable out of a MONO(!!!) configuration (aka bullsh1t).

EDIT: also in that 3 wire config the ground is weaker then the signal. It should be the other way around or atleast equal. I'm not saying that this cable that you posted won't do the job, it's just that considering the $$$ you pay for it, it seems completley flawed ( again, in proffesional terms [which I am not. just did some homework]).
Reply
post #13 of 24
3/31/09 at 4:43am
Braiding just looks pretty to some people and it tends to stay together better unsheathed. That seems like all it's about, another fad that tweakers think looks impressive.
Reply
post #14 of 24
3/31/09 at 9:44am
Braiding is probably a current popular taste if you ask me. You'll have a multiplying generated magnetic field in a twisted cable due to currents moving similarly, but most cables that are braided are also shielded individually, so this doesnt occur.
I think its "high end" looks are probably the main draw-card.
As a side note, I've not known a braided cable to become twisted like a thin straight cable would.
Reply
post #15 of 24
11/28/10 at 7:31pm

So..... Moral of the story is not to braid ? Leave them be ?

 

What about cables in close proximity ?

Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Sound Science
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Sound Science › Braided Cable