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Eddie Current Balancing Act - Page 70

post #1036 of 1418

I prefer Telefunken 6SN7GTB more than the 33S30B.  I think the 33S30B and 33S29B are somewhat cold

and dry sounding to my taste.

post #1037 of 1418

@Appleheadmay:

 

Also lots of choices for output tubes. The output tubes may be even more critical on the BA than the driver. 6SN7's tend to sound similar more or less, whereas in comparison,  some of these output tubes being discussed sound very different.

 

The thing about the PX4/300B is availability and it kinds of limits you. Sometimes the KR PX4s are not available. A lot of good neutral sounding 300Bs are no longer available. A 2A3/45 BA should be given serious consideration. If I had not found the vintage PX25s, I would have converted my BA to run 2A3/45s. In general, they are better and more neutral sounding since "300B" power isn't needed or even tapped in this application.

 

Has anyone tried the EML AD1? I think it's a 4V tube with similar electrical characteristics to the 300B.


Edited by purrin - 4/24/12 at 8:08am
post #1038 of 1418
Thread Starter 

 

My BA is from the first run with 307A tubes. They are very good tubes but not easily available. They are very cheap compared to the 300B and PX4 tubes. I haven't heard BA with any other tubes.

 

In my setup 33S30B sounds great, but $800 / pair is crazy.

 

@purrin
If I am not wrong, Craig only made two BA's with AD1 tubes. For impressions please read Icarium posts.

 


 

post #1039 of 1418

There is a large variety in driver tubes which do affect the BA sound a lot even more than the power tubes.

Of course this is my opinion with my system and tubes.

post #1040 of 1418

Well yeah - if you want to consider driver tubes outside of 6SN7s which one can still reasonably obtain.

 

I'm trying to recommend stuff to AppleheadMay which can be still found. Let's face it, most of the rare stuff is gone, overpriced, overrated, or simply not neutral - possesses certain "cute" idiosyncratic properties. I'm definitely not going to be mentioning super rare B65s, odd 9-pin electrically compatible variants, specially made adapters on a board to convert two single round plate 30s circa 1920 into a "6SN7", AVVTs, WEs, etc. if you know what I mean. 7N7 with an adapter is about as far as I go. I don't even like the 6F8s because of the adapter issues.

 

I still stand by the 2A3/45 BA consideration. There is only one viable PX4, the KR, and most current production 300Bs sound like crap and/or are too expensive. The most critical choice for a prospective BA customer is to decide what type of BA (output tubes) he is going to run, because once he does that, he is stuck with it. Unless he can solder, and can avoid pissing off Craig by asking him 101 questions on using tubes that were never meant for the BA. You may as well try rolling transformers, i.e. putting in $1000+ Hashimoto's. Probably would be a lot more interesting as 50%+ of the amp's sound is from them.

 

Heck, at the end of the day, I'd still take a BA with current production russian Tung-sol 6SN7 and cheap EH 300Bs over any other amp ever mentioned on HF.


Edited by purrin - 4/24/12 at 1:32pm
post #1041 of 1418

removed.....


Edited by LFF - 4/24/12 at 12:43pm
post #1042 of 1418

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleheadMay View Post

 the tube made the sound very dimensional and didn't add any tubey warmth, nor did it sound cold or harsh in any way.

 

Now that is one of the best descriptions of proper tube sound I've read in awhile.

post #1043 of 1418

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post

@Appleheadmay:

 

Also lots of choices for output tubes. The output tubes may be even more critical on the BA than the driver. 6SN7's tend to sound similar more or less, whereas in comparison,  some of these output tubes being discussed sound very different.

 

The thing about the PX4/300B is availability and it kinds of limits you. Sometimes the KR PX4s are not available. A lot of good neutral sounding 300Bs are no longer available. A 2A3/45 BA should be given serious consideration. If I had not found the vintage PX25s, I would have converted my BA to run 2A3/45s. In general, they are better and more neutral sounding since "300B" power isn't needed or even tapped in this application.

 

Has anyone tried the EML AD1? I think it's a 4V tube with similar electrical characteristics to the 300B.

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaxilus View Post

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleheadMay View Post

 the tube made the sound very dimensional and didn't add any tubey warmth, nor did it sound cold or harsh in any way.

 

Now that is one of the best descriptions of proper tube sound I've read in awhile.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post

Well yeah - if you want to consider driver tubes outside of 6SN7s which one can still reasonably obtain.

 

I'm trying to recommend stuff to AppleheadMay which can be still found. Let's face it, most of the rare stuff is gone, overpriced, overrated, or simply not neutral - possesses certain "cute" idiosyncratic properties. I'm definitely not going to be mentioning super rare B65s, odd 9-pin electrically compatible variants, specially made adapters on a board to convert two single round plate 30s circa 1920 into a "6SN7", AVVTs, WEs, etc. if you know what I mean. 7N7 with an adapter is about as far as I go. I don't even like the 6F8s because of the adapter issues.

 

I still stand by the 2A3/45 BA consideration. There is only one viable PX4, the KR, and most current production 300Bs sound like crap and/or are too expensive. The most critical choice for a prospective BA customer is to decide what type of BA (output tubes) he is going to run, because once he does that, he is stuck with it. Unless he can solder, and can avoid pissing off Craig by asking him 101 questions on using tubes that were never meant for the BA. You may as well try rolling transformers, i.e. putting in $1000+ Hashimoto's. Probably would be a lot more interesting as 50%+ of the amp's sound is from them.

 

Heck, at the end of the day, I'd still take a BA with current production russian Tung-sol 6SN7 and cheap EH 300Bs over any other amp ever mentioned on HF.

 

 


Purrin,

Your opinions have been nothing moie than extremely valuable to me.

However, the KR-PX4 si a no brianer for me because it's known to be the cleanest thing I can get.

The 6SN7's you recommend though are already ordered.

I believe with those combos's I will get the cleanest and most spatial sound possible, even if a little shirill which I can live with as long as I don't get the muddy-lush-tubey sound.

 

 

 

 

Anaxilus,

 

Thanks for the nice comment.

I have been a head-fier since 2009 and learned a lot about phones and amps on a fast pace in that time.

Tube rolling however is pretty new to me, but I have pretty good ears and I know what I like and what I don't and I can be pretty harsh in my decisoins on those matters.

I am now listening to the black coated Tung-Sol 6SL7 (on the Zana) which is pretty close to the Standard Radio except for it being far from as clean. So I can see the reason why SR's are costing double of TS's.

I just shut down my Zana to let the TS cool down and plug the SR back in because I can't stand the sound anymore at this time of night. (0.30AM here)

So I wonder, with all the info I got up untill now if I shouldn't go all the way and get me a 6SN7 SR for 800$ and be done with it, saving the money I would be spending on other 6SN7 otherwise.

Except for the two I ordered already of course.

 

EDIT: edited for spelling mistakes and the last sentance. (is it sentence or sentence?)


Edited by AppleheadMay - 4/24/12 at 3:48pm
post #1044 of 1418

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleheadMay View Post

I am now listening to the black coated Tung-Sol 6SL7 (on the Zana) which is pretty close to the Standard Radio except for it being far from as clean. So I can see the reason why SR's are costing double of TS's.

I just shut down my Zana to let the TS cool down and plug the SR back in because I can't stand the sound anymore at this time of night. (0.30AM here)

So I wonder, with all the info I got up untill now if I shouldn't go all the way and get me a 6SN7 SR for 800$ and be done with it, saving the money I would be spending on other 

 

The 6SL7 has very different electrical characteristics than the 6SN7, even if one happens to have outwardly similar looking internals. So you can't really carry over correlation of sound quality to plate structure from 6SL7 to 6SN7s. While the Standard Radio version of the 6SL7 may sound better than the Tungsol TSRP 6SL7, this may not necessarily apply for 6SN7s. (FWIW, I also have the 6SL7 TS BGRPs, and those sound fuzzier and more laid back than the 6SN7 version - although that doesn't mean the SR 6SN7s wouldn't sound even better than the TS BGRPs.)

 

Also, it's important to note that individual tubes of a certain manufacture will stand out above the others. I know Anaxilus will buy a certain number of the same tubes and grade them sonically. Finally, don't fall into the trap of listening to tubes rather than music. I've certainly been guilty of this - actually no - but I thought it would be nice if I said it anyways.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleheadMay View Post

I believe with those combos's I will get the cleanest and most spatial sound possible, even if a little shirill which I can live with as long as I don't get the muddy-lush-tubey sound.

 

Consider current production KR PX25s. Whoa! Those are insanely clean, super detailed, and fast in the treble. Not shrill, not etched, but maybe a bit dry. Too much of a good thing for me. I had the chance to hear them on a BA at Craig's place. At one time, he planned to make his TOTL 'stat amp with those. If you know what 'stats can do, you would understand the choice of using the KR PX25. Maybe a custom PX25/PX4 instead of the standard PX4/300B for you?


Edited by purrin - 4/25/12 at 8:48am
post #1045 of 1418

I'm certainly the kind that would fall into the trap of listening more to gear than to the music at times.

But after a while I seem to get tired of that, put on some music that suits me and don't even care what system I am playing it on.

post #1046 of 1418

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiertijai View Post

Any NOS PX4 is comparable or offer a different sound of similarly high level?  How about the GEC/Osram/Marconi PX4? 

    According to the PX4 site,  the author mentioned that the KR PX4 may be better sounding than the NOS

    There are several NOS PX4's and equivalents: Osram PX4 globe, ST, tubular   Mazda pp3/250   Mullard AC044  Ferranti LP4    Valvo LK4110 etc.

For me I prefer the Osram and Mazda  more than the KR PX4 as the sound are richer , fuller , more balanced     while the Mullard AC044 may not be as good

I also have the Ferranti LP4 but have no chance to listen critically.

 


Is there a difference between PX4 globe, ST, tubular? 

post #1047 of 1418

When you connect the BA via the XLR inputs, does the fixed RCA "Loop" output work?

post #1048 of 1418

I was wondering if anyone took any upgrades for their BA?

post #1049 of 1418

Originally Posted by purrin View Post

 

Consider current production KR PX25s. Whoa! Those are insanely clean, super detailed, and fast in the treble. Not shrill, not etched, but maybe a bit dry. Too much of a good thing for me. I had the chance to hear them on a BA at Craig's place. At one time, he planned to make his TOTL 'stat amp with those. If you know what 'stats can do, you would understand the choice of using the KR PX25. Maybe a custom PX25/PX4 instead of the standard PX4/300B for you?

 

 

How would you further classify the BA's sound with those tubes? Neutral or more than neutral, and especially without anymore warmth than necessary? My hearing levels want more emphasis on the highs, and slightly less warmth than most are happy with. Something like the Arete/Volcano, although even with that I use Amarra's equalizer to tweak the HF. 

 

Its hard to predict but I'd guess any kind of lushness might lead to a perceived imbalance, because my hearing creates its own lushness.


Edited by pigmode - 5/2/12 at 12:30pm
post #1050 of 1418

KR PX25s are neutral without any hint of warm. Maybe even slightly cool.

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