Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphone Amps (full-size) › Dear all balaced headphone wanna be head-fier...
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Dear all balaced headphone wanna be head-fier... - Page 7

post #91 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by WindowsX View Post
grace m902 has balanced upgrade with TRS jack like most studio equipments have. It's not balanced headphone output as you guys know but its output can drive full-size cans from specifications. Haven't you guys ever tried plugging headphone in PC's speaker out jack? They both work well and this is one of those regards.
Can you explain what "balanced upgrade with TRS jack" means?
A PC speaker output jack is just the same as the headphone out: not balanced.
post #92 of 108
A TRS is Tip, Ring, Sleeve. it's a 3-pin 1/4" cable. Two of them makes for a balanced output. As Windows stated, his Grace is modified.
post #93 of 108
Is your amp still alive?

But honestly I will fall off my chair laughing if I read at work later that your amp shorted or was destroyed by your current use of it.
post #94 of 108
Thread Starter 
FYI: grace m902 has official balanced upgrade from m902 balanced output upgrade
post #95 of 108
Yup, he's right.
post #96 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by WindowsX View Post
FYI: grace m902 has official balanced upgrade from m902 balanced output upgrade
Sorry, I see what you think, but you're wrong.
It is the LINE out (not volume controlled) and it entails that you use TWO TRS plugs: one for the left and one for the right channel to connect.
So if you want to use it for your headphones you would want to reterminate/recable your phones with a 4 wire cable with a TRS plug for the left and one for the right channel.
The only difference with normal balanced use would be that you use two TRS plugs instead of two XLR plugs to connect your headphones.
And you would have no volume control (on the amp).

Edit CORRECTION: the line out would be volume controlled. My mistake.
post #97 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by WindowsX View Post
FYI: grace m902 has official balanced upgrade from m902 balanced output upgrade
Those TRS Balanced outs are not connected to the headphone amplifier circuitry (i.e. pure line-outs); you are dreaming if you think you are getting the benefit of a balanced head-amp, even if just by a fraction.

In addition, directly connecting your SE-ended phone to one of those terminals will only give you mono sound. Mono sound, I repeat. One side will also be driven out of phase and won't sound right. Edit: With the possibility of using an adapter to combine the two jacks (dual male TRS to single female TRS), which I believe is what you are originally referring to, you sure will get a stereo signal. But, as has been mentioned by mbd2884, I can only hope no damage has been dealt to your m902 through the bridging of the 'cold' signals.

I strongly suggest you learn more about things like this (if you consider yourself to belong to the first group of people you referenced in your sig) before making something as grossly misinformed as this. Your "advice" has the potential of causing equipment damage to ill-informed people.

Regards.
post #98 of 108
WindowsX just to correct you earlier, the line out connection on a PC soundcard can NOT drive unpowered speakers. Heck it can barely drive headphones. It is meant to supply a signal to an amp to drive speakers. Most if not all pc speakers are self powered.

Really with your apparent lack of electrical and audio knowledge you really should not be modify things the way you are. Read first then solder.

So we are back to you are connecting your headphones to the amp in a manner that will most likely damage the amp. Do not do that and do not tell other people to do it.

edit: WindowsX are you plugging in your headphones to just one of the jacks? Or are you using a Y adapter to plug into both?
If you are just plugging into one jack then you will not damage the amp however you will also only have mono sound. If you are using a Y adapter you are shorting the negative signal which can and most likely will damage that amp over time.
post #99 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by m1abrams View Post
So 6 pages and the OP does not have a balanced amp. Maybe we should have asked what amp he had from the beginning
Well, "someone" did ask back up in the first reply.
But he never bothered to reply.
Quote:
Originally Posted by krmathis View Post
So, how about telling us which gear you used for the test?
Headphone(s), amplifier(s), source, and like...
post #100 of 108
He edited the post and filled the gear list later.
post #101 of 108
What blows my mind about this whole discussion is this guy has well over $4000 US in gear and is being cheap about re-terminating his headphones. It is not like he is opposed to modding since both his source and amp have been modded (albeit from factory).

He would rather risk damaging his amp.
post #102 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by m1abrams View Post
What blows my mind about this whole discussion is this guy has well over $4000 US in gear and is being cheap about re-terminating his headphones. It is not like he is opposed to modding since both his source and amp have been modded (albeit from factory).
I would not reterminate a couple of my headphones.

but then i would jsut make sure the amp coudl drive them well SE rather than trying to make something out of a balanced amp.
post #103 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by krmathis View Post
Well, "someone" did ask back up in the first reply.
But he never bothered to reply.
post #104 of 108

There is something Wrong with His Logic

Quote:
Originally Posted by WindowsX View Post
Well, have you carefully examed balanced headphone cable? It uses "4" conductors, not "6", meaning signal is not totally separated into + and - thingy since headphone driver is capable in getting one channel and send back another channel.

What I want to convey is you can archive the balanced benefit from the system at certain level without requiring re-terminating your headphone cable. And it really sounds a lot better compared to conventional stereo jack output.

This method doesn't sound exactly as good as pure balanced system but still a lot better than running from unbalanced setup so my encouragement is to get balanced amplifier eventough your headphone isn't pure balanced recabled.

Hope this is clear to all you guys and please stop bashing balanced/unbalanced dream competition. I already have k1000, running from balanced system and it works well

My test system is
Source: Linn Genki (Modded) as transport using AES (from modded ones)
DAC/Amp: grace m902b (modded and have balanced upgrade)
Headphone: k1000 (for direct comparison using adaptors but well, that alone can't drive to its potential without Firstwatt F1), DX1000
The Balance cable setup that I currently have consist of four conductors. Left and right channel have two independent pairs of conductors. The output end terminates into a four conductor XLR-balance cable. I use this cable with the recently purchased Little Dot MKVI, which is a fully balanced tube headphone amplifier. The output section uses a mini-XLR 4-conductor (two conductors per channel - +/- independent setup), which is in essence a balance configuration. The idea of a 6-conductor cable equals balance is just not true. It may be true in a virtual sense if you are seeking independent ground per channel, however that is not the case. Ask an audiophile or specialist and these people will properly inform you that a balance headphone system consists mainly with a 4-conductor XLR or dual independent monaural 1/4-inch headphone jacks (mono-pole configuration - two separate cables one for each channel/side).

I am an audiophile and I have cables for both types of balanced configurations. Hope this clarifies certain uncertain questions and answers.:dt880smil e:
post #105 of 108

Another Correction if not Already Corrected

Quote:
Originally Posted by WindowsX View Post
FYI: Headphone has 4 conductors for cable and 3 connectors for jack (meaning it can use balanced source using adaptor since invert phase is combined right before sending back to its source). It's impossible for headphone to use 3 conductors since left and right driver need 2 each for signal and its invert.

Here's how it looks like for jack and cable using balanced adaptor to balaned system.

-------------------(L+)-------------->
G------<-------\______2cm_/(L-)<-----------
Balanced(10cm) ------G<---- Headphone(10ft)
G------<-------/_5cm______\(R-)<-----------
-------------------(R+)-------------->
___________Adaptor_______Jack

G is just a come back from + phase so it doesn't carry sound for listening.....and it works well, friend
I am not sure what are u trying to inform us here. Take the Sennheiser HD650 headphone as an example: the design of this headphone is to allow for a cable upgrade at the user's request. Standard headphone cables provided for this headphone consists of four conductors (+L, -L, and +R, -R) and then terminated to a standard stereo 1/4-inch phono jack (3-pole). The part that YOU do not understand that two of the -L/R conductors or terminated in common (-) pole of the 1/4-inch jack. Everybody in the audio community knows this including myself since I have as a hobby build these cables for the hopes of obtaining excellent sound through both single-end and balance (more SE than BAL). Stereo amplifiers and headphone amps that single-ended by nature do not have a problem with headphones with standard cables terminated through the stereo 1/4-inch phono jack, however upgrading to a balance setup requires changes to both the cable and the audio setup. An adapter that changes a single-ended headphone to balanced will not have any real or significant benefits. In fact the destruction of your amp may come soon if you do not return the system in its original true balance setup. Bridging the (-) poles of a balanced system with an adapter will literally over time fry the amplifier's output stage.

I understand these systems very well since I have at one point in my life experience this type of situation and learned from it. Not being closed minded, I researched and received feedback from others and obtained the knowledge to provide myself with the best possible sound with my given system. My single-ended system has been praised by other headphone audiophiles in my community as comparable to their balanced system. A little bit of time and effort has given me a pleasurable experience. Sorry for the long response, however the fact remains that with a traditional single-ended headphone setup, four conductors total (+/-L and +/-R) with the (-) poles for both channels terminating into a single pole within the stereo phono jack's assembly (this is under the three-pole phono jack design). Any corrections as to my statement, please feel free to do so. Thanks
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Headphone Amps (full-size)
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphone Amps (full-size) › Dear all balaced headphone wanna be head-fier...