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Dear all balaced headphone wanna be head-fier... - Page 3

post #31 of 108
2/2/09 at 1:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by m1abrams View Post
That is a different argument. The gains from going balanced can certainly be argued whether they make up the costs or not.

The OP is saying you can use a balanced amp just as well with only 3 conductors.

EDIT: Not defending balanced or not, headphones are much more sensitive than speakers.
Right,

Thanks for the clarification. The definition of balanced does not allow for just 3 conductors. Also, not to sound rude but I really could not understand what the OP was trying to get across.
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post #32 of 108
2/2/09 at 4:51am
Thread Starter 
FYI: Headphone has 4 conductors for cable and 3 connectors for jack (meaning it can use balanced source using adaptor since invert phase is combined right before sending back to its source). It's impossible for headphone to use 3 conductors since left and right driver need 2 each for signal and its invert.

Here's how it looks like for jack and cable using balanced adaptor to balaned system.

-------------------(L+)-------------->
G------<-------\______2cm_/(L-)<-----------
Balanced(10cm) ------G<---- Headphone(10ft)
G------<-------/_5cm______\(R-)<-----------
-------------------(R+)-------------->
___________Adaptor_______Jack

G is just a come back from + phase so it doesn't carry sound for listening.....and it works well, friend
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post #33 of 108
2/2/09 at 5:05am
Not all headphones have four conductors, some have two separate conductors with one that is split between both sides (shared ground).

As for your little diagram, I'm not quite sure what you're trying to show. You have the positive from the amp connected to the headphone, and the ground from the head phone connected to the ground pin of the balanced amp? If so, you're just using your amp single ended
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post #34 of 108
2/2/09 at 6:54am
yeh.....seems weird to have the whole thing ready for balanced, and switch to SE at the end. Might as well have the headphones recabled, I don't really think it's such a big deal to have them reterminated to balanced.
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post #35 of 108
2/2/09 at 8:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by WindowsX View Post
FYI: Headphone has 4 conductors for cable and 3 connectors for jack (meaning it can use balanced source using adaptor since invert phase is combined right before sending back to its source). It's impossible for headphone to use 3 conductors since left and right driver need 2 each for signal and its invert.

Here's how it looks like for jack and cable using balanced adaptor to balaned system.

-------------------(L+)-------------->
G------<-------\______2cm_/(L-)<-----------
Balanced(10cm) ------G<---- Headphone(10ft)
G------<-------/_5cm______\(R-)<-----------
-------------------(R+)-------------->
___________Adaptor_______Jack

G is just a come back from + phase so it doesn't carry sound for listening.....and it works well, friend
Allmost all headphones have 3 conductors in the cable. Even the ones that have a dual entry to the phones have almost allways only three conductors from the y-split to the plug.
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post #36 of 108
2/2/09 at 10:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiotailor View Post
Yes ! It is workable. This new topology can split signal to + & - (180 degree out of phase on each channel). It ouput at right channel +/-, left channel +- wire. It is a balance output signal but RCA input only. Output stage work as splitter & current amplifier. I had send a Pisces to USA for Cansfest 2009.
I am confused with what you are trying to say to me. You do agree that you have 4 conductors on the out. Yes you can have an unbalanced input to a balanced output. Not ideal but certainly possible. Again not sure what your point was.
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post #37 of 108
2/2/09 at 10:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by WindowsX View Post
FYI: Headphone has 4 conductors for cable and 3 connectors for jack (meaning it can use balanced source using adaptor since invert phase is combined right before sending back to its source). It's impossible for headphone to use 3 conductors since left and right driver need 2 each for signal and its invert.

Here's how it looks like for jack and cable using balanced adaptor to balaned system.

-------------------(L+)-------------->
G------<-------\______2cm_/(L-)<-----------
Balanced(10cm) ------G<---- Headphone(10ft)
G------<-------/_5cm______\(R-)<-----------
-------------------(R+)-------------->
___________Adaptor_______Jack

G is just a come back from + phase so it doesn't carry sound for listening.....and it works well, friend
Ok maybe I am confused at what you are trying to say. Note that you MUST have 4 conductors from the AMP to the heaphone 2 for each channel and at NO point can any other those conductor short. If you have headphones wired with XLR then yes you can use an adapter to make the headphone work with a standard unbalanced phono plug. BUT the reverse is NOT true.
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post #38 of 108
2/2/09 at 12:45pm
Okay, now I am getting confused myself as well.
I always though it is possible to at least drive headphones with a regular TRS connector from a balanced amplifier by using an adapter?
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post #39 of 108
2/2/09 at 2:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by apatN View Post
Okay, now I am getting confused myself as well.
I always though it is possible to at least drive headphones with a regular TRS connector from a balanced amplifier by using an adapter?
No. Can't be done. You need two wires to each driver and a TRS plug has only three contact points (left signal, right signal and common ground).
If you made an adapter you'd combine the inverted signals from both left and right channel in one wire. Bad idea.
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post #40 of 108
2/2/09 at 3:01pm
Thank you Kees. I thought that a TRS to XLR (as in one 4pin and two 3pins) connector should just work.
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post #41 of 108
2/2/09 at 3:58pm
Thread Starter 
TRS works. Non-technician disagreements are from balanced biased since headphone drivers aren't designed for 6 channels so no real balance for this (even speakers)
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post #42 of 108
2/2/09 at 4:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by apatN View Post
Thank you Kees. I thought that a TRS to XLR (as in one 4pin and two 3pins) connector should just work.
You can do 4 pin (female) XLR to two 3 pin XLRs, but that would mean you need 4 wires in your cable. You only use two connections (pin 2 and 3) out of the three in the three pin XLRs.
A TRS (Top Ring Sleeve, = the "standard headphone plug" model) has per definition a three way connection (combining the two ground wires to the sleeve, if there are two ground wires in your cable).
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post #43 of 108
2/2/09 at 4:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WindowsX View Post
TRS works. Non-technician disagreements are from balanced biased since headphone drivers aren't designed for 6 channels so no real balance for this (even speakers)
I distinctly get the impression that you don't understand what is meant by the balanced driving of headphones (as opposed to balanced interconnects, which is a clompletely different thing that has nothing to do with this)
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post #44 of 108
2/2/09 at 5:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WindowsX View Post
TRS works. Non-technician disagreements are from balanced biased since headphone drivers aren't designed for 6 channels so no real balance for this (even speakers)
Where in the world do you get this info that balanced means 6 channels? For headphones it does NOT it mean 4. Balanced means providing a signal to both sides of a driver, one 180 degrees out of phase of the other. Since stereo headphones have 2 drivers that means 4 signals. I can not explain this any simplier.

TRS balanced does NOT work, there is no questions or debate about this, it is just physics. TRS only provides 3 paths, balanced requires 4 paths.

Where do you get this idea that balanced requires 6 is beyond me. But please stop trying to spread mis-information.

Edit: WindowsX I just noticed your signature. How fitting
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post #45 of 108
2/2/09 at 5:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kees View Post
You can do 4 pin (female) XLR to two 3 pin XLRs, but that would mean you need 4 wires in your cable. You only use two connections (pin 2 and 3) out of the three in the three pin XLRs.
A TRS (Top Ring Sleeve, = the "standard headphone plug" model) has per definition a three way connection (combining the two ground wires to the sleeve, if there are two ground wires in your cable).
I know that, yes. The other way round does work, right? I mean I seen headphones terminated to 4 pin xlr that go into single ended amps by means of an adapter.
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