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Dear all balaced headphone wanna be head-fier... - Page 2

post #16 of 108
I don't think he knows what a balanced amp really does.
post #17 of 108
here i read the topic and first line, and thought this was going to be a thread supporting single 4-pin XLR connectors

shame about all the misinformation in the OP, I hope no one who reads this decides against a balanced setup - it was a fantastic move for me
post #18 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Doug View Post
here i read the topic and first line, and thought this was going to be a thread supporting single 4-pin XLR connectors

shame about all the misinformation in the OP, I hope no one who reads this decides against a balanced setup - it was a fantastic move for me
x2 on both topics
post #19 of 108
This thread made me laugh at the headache it gave while confusing and infusing with imbalanced dreams.

Yep.
post #20 of 108
Thread Starter 
Well, have you carefully examed balanced headphone cable? It uses "4" conductors, not "6", meaning signal is not totally separated into + and - thingy since headphone driver is capable in getting one channel and send back another channel.

What I want to convey is you can archive the balanced benefit from the system at certain level without requiring re-terminating your headphone cable. And it really sounds a lot better compared to conventional stereo jack output.

This method doesn't sound exactly as good as pure balanced system but still a lot better than running from unbalanced setup so my encouragement is to get balanced amplifier eventough your headphone isn't pure balanced recabled.

Hope this is clear to all you guys and please stop bashing balanced/unbalanced dream competition. I already have k1000, running from balanced system and it works well

My test system is
Source: Linn Genki (Modded) as transport using AES (from modded ones)
DAC/Amp: grace m902b (modded and have balanced upgrade)
Headphone: k1000 (for direct comparison using adaptors but well, that alone can't drive to its potential without Firstwatt F1), DX1000
post #21 of 108
6 conductors? WHAT!

Please read something about balanced audio signals before posting again.
post #22 of 108
4 conductors are all that are needed for pure balanced; l+, l-, r+, r-. No need for 6.

To OP, I understand your headphones sound better on a balanced rig even though your phones are not balanced but why would you? If you happen to have a fully balanced rig it would be a shame if your headphones are not balanced.
If you don't have a balanced rig getting a balanced amplifier is kind of overkill since you won't get the benefits of balanced at all.
post #23 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by WindowsX View Post
Well, have you carefully examed balanced headphone cable? It uses "4" conductors, not "6", meaning signal is not totally separated into + and - thingy since headphone driver is capable in getting one channel and send back another channel.
Everyone knows that.
post #24 of 108
Thread Starter 
Yaa including me. I'm telling ya there's no big deal between completely separated invert phase and combine for very short length and separated again to its source.

Quote:
If you don't have a balanced rig getting a balanced amplifier is kind of overkill since you won't get the benefits of balanced at all.
I disagree upon that. It's best to have everything balanced as much as possible but this issue isn't all or nothing in my experiences. unbal pre -> unbal power -> output still sounds worse than bal pre -> unbal power nonetheless. And I still recommend making system balanced as much as possible eventough the headphone is not.
post #25 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by WindowsX View Post
Yaa including me. I'm telling ya there's no big deal between completely separated invert phase and combine for very short length and separated again to its source.



I disagree upon that. It's best to have everything balanced as much as possible but this issue isn't all or nothing in my experiences. unbal pre -> unbal power -> output still sounds worse than bal pre -> unbal power nonetheless. And I still recommend making system balanced as much as possible eventough the headphone is not.
I am really confused about what you are saying. You can NOT drive headphones from a balanced amplifier with only 3 conductors. If you are saying you can, you are wrong. Well technically you can however you may destroy the amplifier.

Now many balanced amps have provisions for driving SE headphones however the way they do it is by using only half of the balanced amp and the return path is the PS ground. To do this because you do not want to re-terminate your headphones is really dumb since you are only using HALF of your investment.
post #26 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by m1abrams View Post
No - read what people above have already stated. Balanced means 4 channels, 2 for each driver 180 degrees out of phase of each other.

You can not have a single channel driven 180 degress out of phase of 2 other channels, just does not work. If you do not understand what something is please do not try and spread mis-information.

Not really sure what your point is in this post. Running a balanced setup is pretty expensive endeavor, and it has nothing to do with the minimal cost of terminating the headphones.
It may be not 100% true! You can drive medium to high impedace Can in balance mode by our Jade & Pisces. It have 2 output with 180 degree out of phase Due to Jade one output from Plate & other from cathod. Pisces one from D & one from S. Even Output impedace is diffrence but good for hight impedace.
post #27 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiotailor View Post
It may be not 100% true! You can drive medium to high impedace Can in balance mode by our Jade & Pisces. It have 2 output with 180 degree out of phase Due to Jade one output from Plate & other from cathod. Pisces one from D & one from S. Even Output impedace is diffrence but good for hight impedace.
No you can not unless you are not listening to a stereo signal. The thing I do not think the original poster does not understand is that the negative signal is NOT a ground but a signal. It is the SAME signal as the positive signal except 180 degrees out of phase. This means that the LEFT negative channel is NOT the same signal as the RIGHT negative channel.

If you short the left and right negative signals it would be no different than shorting the positive signals. If you ignore one and not connect it then one channel will have serious audio artifacts.
post #28 of 108
I posed this question to folks that I know from another forum (folks I have known for about 5 years now) and the few who responded confirmed that there was hardly no advantage to be gained by going balanced. Granted they were testing it out with speakers. BUt they all had highly resolving equipment when they tested it out.

Haven't heard it myself to post an opinion. Would like to double check of course.
post #29 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by sachu View Post
I posed this question to folks that I know from another forum (folks I have known for about 5 years now) and the few who responded confirmed that there was hardly no advantage to be gained by going balanced. Granted they were testing it out with speakers. BUt they all had highly resolving equipment when they tested it out.

Haven't heard it myself to post an opinion. Would like to double check of course.
That is a different argument. The gains from going balanced can certainly be argued whether they make up the costs or not.

The OP is saying you can use a balanced amp just as well with only 3 conductors.

EDIT: Not defending balanced or not, headphones are much more sensitive than speakers.
post #30 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by m1abrams View Post
No you can not unless you are not listening to a stereo signal. The thing I do not think the original poster does not understand is that the negative signal is NOT a ground but a signal. It is the SAME signal as the positive signal except 180 degrees out of phase. This means that the LEFT negative channel is NOT the same signal as the RIGHT negative channel.

If you short the left and right negative signals it would be no different than shorting the positive signals. If you ignore one and not connect it then one channel will have serious audio artifacts.
Yes ! It is workable. This new topology can split signal to + & - (180 degree out of phase on each channel). It ouput at right channel +/-, left channel +- wire. It is a balance output signal but RCA input only. Output stage work as splitter & current amplifier. I had send a Pisces to USA for Cansfest 2009.
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